Open Thread
I'm going to jinx it, I'm sure, but this should be the last manual thread. If all goes well tonight with the testing, I'll flip on the auto-thread first thing tomorrow.
Comments (721) «
Yeah, Yeah, and the tooth fairy is going to come tonight, right Josh???? :))
Seriously, we know how hard you have been working and we appreciate it!
I don't recommend making deals with God, Pam. However, if Rove & Libby get indicted, I will make contributions on payday Thurs. to DNCC; the guy who' s running against Santorum ; Kednnedy; Clinton, H; and any other dem cause that appears in my e-mail between now & thurs.
Coming to a Courthouse Near You!
The Hammer Goes To Jail
Starring:
Tom DeLay
TRMPAC
Tom Craddock
Rick Perry
The Texas Republican Party
and The RNC
You know, I don't think I've had to re-sign on once so far, and I've been on three hours. Has that been fixed Josh?
How about Bill Nelson's race against Cruella De Harris in FL next year and whatever Dem is running against J Kenneth Selloutwell for governor of Ohio?
Does anyone remember when James Watt (Reagan's Secretary of the Interior) ordered that ALL Dep't of Interior Logos be changed so that the Buffalo was facing RIGHT? That logo was around since TR started the Dep't., but those Pube framers started that crapola the second Reagan stumbled into 1600.
The cost was estimated to be several MILLIONS of TAX DOLLARS, but they didn't care.
It would entail changing (and destroying) ALL letterhead envelopes, signs at National Parks, Shirt Patches...etc.
It was "Framing Gone Wild". I tried to look that up on the official Interior site, but they have a "18 second gap" in their history.
Coals are hot.
BBL
How about Bill Nelson's race against Cruella De Harris in FL next year and whatever Dem is running against J Kenneth Selloutwell for governor of Ohio?
The way all these "question and answer" photo-ops Junior has are all scripted, I can't help but wonder if all these elections are scripted too. They say the one in Iraq was.
Catching up for the afternoon after going grocery shopping.
Frostie,
I don't mean to sound mean man but your defense of the $160,000 salary that Congressman get sounds lame. Poor wittle Congress will have to forgo cable if they don't get a pay raise.
Yeah CA, the poor always have too much, and the rich don't have enough. That's one of the Republican talking points alright.
bb,
ok, ok, you convinced me, not to bargain with God.
I am waiting to see which PA Dem gets the nod to go against Santorrum. Casey or Pennachio! Casey seems to be ahead, but I think I would prefer Pennachio.
Harris in FL is running WAY behind Nelson, and the Repubs want her to drop out SO bad, but she won't. Petillo in NY WAY behind Hillary.
I was sending contributions to Lampson in TX against Delay, but I don't think Delay will get many votes while behind bars, so will not send any contributions on to more needy ones.
Thanks, Josh.
bb, Gergen and all the rest of the talking heads still think this is a political issue not a criminal investigation. The Beltway bunch has no idea how fedup the rest of the nation has gotten with them living by one standard and the rest of us having to live by the law of the land.
Hadley indicted?
Larry Johnson: Had lunch today with a person who has a direct tie to one of the folks facing indictment in the Plame affair. There are 22 files that Fitzgerald is looking at for potential indictment . These include Stephen Hadley, Karl Rove, Lewis Libby, Dick Cheney, and Mary Matalin (there are others of course). Hadley has told friends he expects to be indicted. No wonder folks are nervous at the White House."
Seems that Fitzgerald has everyone crumbling.
Crooks and Liars
I don't mean to sound mean man but your defense of the $160,000 salary that Congressman get sounds lame. Poor wittle Congress will have to forgo cable if they don't get a pay raise.Posted by CBwaltz on October 18, 2005 at 08:17 PM
I know Christine, first of all, they don't need to own 2 houses, they are in DC infrequently enough to rent something. And when you consider that $160,000 is 4 times what many Americans make, it loses it necessity for a raise.
More on Congressional perks and it appears that they get an auto allowance(hint: I got the impression it was MORE generous before some got caught abusing the system)
Anybody watching Olbermann? hehehe
just did a happy dance, after reporting that O'Reilly says he will retire when his contract ends in 2 years!!!!
I like this site. It is helpful to know where we have the best chance of getting rid of GOP
They get the "best" of health care, housing, and pensions, yet don't want us to have any. Boy, those people, and it's our money they're handing out to themselves too.
These include Stephen Hadley, Karl Rove, Lewis Libby, Dick Cheney, and Mary Matalin
Wow, William, Mary Matalin???
I wouldn't mind seeing her go down, even if she is married to Carville !
Why are all those Republican female Reporters and politicians such mean, nasty, tough looking broads??? Rice, Matalin, Coulter, Bay Buchannan, Hughes,
SandyH @ 8:22
no kidding. I can hear Bush now, before the ink on the indictments is dry: "Listen, ah don't give a damn what some fellow says, it was a right thing taking out that viscous dictator and Rove & Liby are Amereican patriots and heroes."
No George, it was not right, in fact it was illegal and moreover, if there is a Hell, you will burn in it for taking America to war based on a lie.
From Christine's link at 8:31.
I agree. I believe that this is just another scheme by the GOP, to keep repeating the Dems have no Message, just Bush Bashing !
I'm fed up with the current meme that "Republicans are screwing up,
but what plan do the Democrats have?" I feel like we do have a
plan, just no one cares enough to listen to it. (And if no one is
saying it, that has to change now.) Either way, here's my 3-part
mantra for taking back the Senate -- and House -- next year. If
facets of these three points aren't part of every Democratic
candidate's campaign, maybe we are lost as a party.
1. Privacy in all matters.
The right likes to think "privacy" is code for abortion. That's a bit
too limited. It's not just that -- it's code for letting people make
decisions about their lives without the interference of government
into those decisions. This includes not just abortion, but birth
control, marriage, what goes on in your bedroom, the "war on
drugs," end-of-life choices (i.e. the Oregon law & Schiavo
intervention), medical & financial records, the Patriot Act, even guns.
2. U.S. out of Iraq.
It is impossible to ignore this 800-pound elephant in the living
room. Any Congressional candidate that does is too wishy-washy for
my tastes. Public sentiment has turned dramatically against this
war and this President. Take a position here: Immediate
withdrawal, a timetable, a reduction in troops, a plan to train Iraqi
military forces more effectively. Sidestepping this issue is a surefire
way to lose.
3. Accountability & responsibility.
From Bill Frist to Tom DeLay to Karl Rove to Roy Blunt to Bob Taft to
Ernie Fletcher to Michael Brown to Jack Abramoff, this Republican
party cannot be counted on to tell the truth or own up to a thing.
Are these the people you want redrawing your district lines,
investigating ethics allegations, spending your taxdollars, protecting
you from a natural disaster, or keeping away terrorists? And this
goes for any Democrat, too: If you're dirty, I don't want you.
Just remember, a vote for any Republican is a vote of confidence in
the disaster that is the Bush administration.
They have to be tough Pam B. You know that the GOP has no use for being a minority in any way shape or form. They have to be "one of the boys".
I still will never understand the Carville/Matalin thing. I mean yeah, SEX, but that heat lasts what, one or two years? To marry and stay married to someone whose values are so opposed to one's own -- I don't get it. I mean I'm guilty of having dated two Repugs in my life, so I know whereof I speak . . .
Here's another good one I bookmarked for very vulnerable House GOP folks
http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/021705/gop.html
They have to be "one of the boys".Posted by CBwaltz on October 18, 2005 at 08:39 PM
They must need the work really bad, Christine.
Or else that deep base of Hate that the Republicans have, is shown especially clearly in the women.
Kim,
I cannot even imagine being married to a Republican, knowing every thing I hold dear is opposed by him.
Did you all get the details of their new "tax reform" recommendations? No deductions for things the middle class depend on to lower their taxes. Bye, bye deductions for home mortgage interest and state and local taxes. Just like their SS bait and switch spin, it's a tax raise pure and simple.
The flat tax is their next step toward a permanent "tax surcharge" on everything the poor and middle class must have as necessities....but will not be levied on luxury items the rich don't need like gas-guzzling Hummers that come with an extra special tax rebate for some supposed national security reason since 9/11?
I really think the tax issue could be our ace in the hole in '06. The Republicans have abandoned all sense of trying to offer any tax relief for the middle class....and have been become the real pork barrel, graft and corruption spenders that they have always accused us of being....and even the most conservative of voters know it.
It's like they are insulting the middle class with each new "reform" measure they propose...and they think we will just "believe" them that it is in our best interests?
No George, it was not right, in fact it was illegal and moreover, if there is a Hell, you will burn in it for taking America to war based on a lie.
Posted by bb on October 18, 2005 at 08:37 PM
Well AMEN, bb, but it's more than taking us to war based on a lie. There are so MANY lies Bushco has fed to the gullible public. The neocons planned to invade Iraq BEFORE 9/11. Never mind WMDs and "faulty intelligence." For me, it was so OBVIOUS Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Why then did Congress swallow this crap and only a third of Americans see right off the bat that this was a trumped-up invasion? And why are there still so many blind/dumbasses out there who think that because Bush/Cheney keep repeating it that there's a connection between 9/11 and Saddam??
I like Hilary, always have, but I don't know that I want to vote for ANYBODY who endorsed or continues to endorse this illegal war.
No George, it was not right, in fact it was illegal and moreover, if there is a Hell, you will burn in it for taking America to war based on a lie.
Posted by bb on October 18, 2005 at 08:37 PM
Well AMEN, bb, but it's more than taking us to war based on a lie. There are so MANY lies Bushco has fed to the gullible public. The neocons planned to invade Iraq BEFORE 9/11. Never mind WMDs and "faulty intelligence." For me, it was so OBVIOUS Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Why then did Congress swallow this crap and only a third of Americans see right off the bat that this was a trumped-up invasion? And why are there still so many blind/dumbasses out there who think that because Bush/Cheney keep repeating it that there's a connection between 9/11 and Saddam??
I like Hilary, always have, but I don't know that I want to vote for ANYBODY who endorsed or continues to endorse this illegal war.
Why are all those Republican female Reporters and politicians such mean, nasty, tough looking broads???
Well Pam, I don't know if I should say this, but the way I've heard it explained about women who act that way is because they want to show they "got more b*lls than the men do".
I don't mean to sound mean man but your defense of the $160,000 salary that Congressman get sounds lame. Poor wittle Congress will have to forgo cable if they don't get a pay raise.Posted by CBwaltz on October 18, 2005 at 08:17 PM
I know Christine, first of all, they don't need to own 2 houses, they are in DC infrequently enough to rent something. And when you consider that $160,000 is 4 times what many Americans make, it loses it necessity for a raise.
Posted by PamB on October 18, 2005 at 08:25 PM
------------------------------------------------
Pam, CB,
They ought to try and make it on $714 a month like me. That's $8,568 a year! Since bush has been in, he's gave the lowest raises to Social Security of any president since its inception. If my house hadn't been paid for, I'd have been up shit creek, but fortunately it was. At this money though, you just barely skate by. Now, this S.O.B. is wanting to cut these funds more. If you ask me, they should have a minimum they pay on SS of around $850 if you at least work say five years no matter what you pay in. When you look into it, just a shade over that is all you will get if you've worked a full 30+ years and have paid in the max a few years. My cousins husband retired from Armco Steel (now AK Steel), and worked overtime every week. He only draws something like $1,100-$1,200 a month. That's rediculous!
KimB
Earlier I mentioned Feingold. I like what I see so far. Smart enough to vote NO on Iraq and he voted no on the bankruptcy bill so I believe he's not under the corporate thumb. He's able to work with GOP without compromising what he clearly believes.
Targeting the main tax deductions used by the middle class sounds like a prescription for a few lost elections to me - for the G.O.P, that is.
If America is paying attention. . . which I no longer count on.
Oh yea, I about forgot,
My state case worker (for the Ohio waver plan), who calls once a month for Medicade called today. She asked if I had got my new Medicare book. I told her yes, and I had a question. I asked, since we are being forced to take the new prescription plan, and will have a deductible for our meds, will Medicade pick this up? She said, "I'm sorry, they wont".
Something to think about!
We have betrayed the promise of America, government of the people, by the people and for the people. We have become a government OF THE CORPORATION, BY THE CORPORATION AND FOR THE CORPORATION.
A recent CNN online poll showed that 98% of those responding believed that the congress was not concerned with the welfare of the middle class. Admittedly, this was not a scientific poll, but the results are dramatic and somewhat surprising.
It is clear that we are increasingly becoming a divided society, and that poverty is increasing and the middle class is shrinking. Legislation is increasing being prepared for the corporation, often written by the corporations. (e.g. New bankruptcy legislation.) These corporations, for the most part, have no allegiance to this country and have often moved off-shore in an effort to minimize tax liabilty. We have lost our moral compass and as a country have changed to climate of corporate greed. The corporations may well feel this not as greed, but corporate survival but the result is the same.
It strikes me that the DNC should consider a campaign that emphasizes a real support for the middle class. The primary concern of any legislation should be, what will the impact be on the citizens. I'm not saying that we should retreat to a protectionist and isolationist society, but we should consider the full coost of our actions, including the social cost. Companies should not be rewarded for their out-sourcing of jobs.
This will require more than campaign reform, it will require political reform, limiting the role of lobbiests. The Democratic party has abandoned their base, the working people of america. They have allowed the message and the debate to shift from these core issues to fringe issues such as abortion and gay rights. It's not that these issues are unimportant, they just distract everyone, particulary voters, from the core issue of the quality of life for americans.
There is no more important moral issue than the protection of the american people and the american system of government. Keep to this issue, become the party of the people. Stay on point.
The more I read about this guy the more impressed I get.
Lone vote against the Patriot act, Paygo, forgoes his raises and sends the money to the treasury......
I'm not a person that impresses easy either
Someone said lobbyist........Where's Tom Delay?
That's his favorite word.
Will,
A lot is considered in SS benefits.
What age was your cousin's husband?
See this chart, where anyone born after 1937 has to work longer for Full Benefits. (i.e. 65 and 2 months all the way up to age 67) You are considered retiring early, if you go before Full benfit time.
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10024.html#fra
Here's the Average SS:
Average 2005 monthly Social Security benefits
Retired worker: $955
Retired couple: $1,574
Disabled worker: $895
Disabled worker with a spouse and child: $1,497
Widow or widower: $920
Young widow or widower with two children: $1,979
The Maximum amount someone can receive is something like $1400, no matter how much they earned. Of course, remember, the amount taken out for SS stops at $90,000 of income each year.
This Democratic "Contract with America" that people are giving sugestions for is a good idea, but I think they also should hammer home how the Republicans never kept their promise on their own contract with America. Karl Rove never attacks someone on their weakness, he attacks them on their strenght. If they're a war hero he'll attack their service and so on. They say that Republican "Contract with America" helped sweep them into power, so our side needs to show how it was all a lie like everything else they say and do.
Heading out all. Commander in chief on. I have been enjoying it.
talk to all tomorrow.
Domingo
Yes, I think it has. I was asked yesterday how long I wanted it set for, and I said 36 hours. So, you shouldn't have to deal with it until then. Wasn't sure if they had rolled it out or not...last I heard they were still working on the details.
Pam,
He worked until 65 I think. He is married with two children, none at home now. I think his daughter was still there when he did retire. You used to receive an extra check for a kid, but I know Regan nuked that as I was involved in it back in 1980. Actually, he was found to have asbestosis but I think that was after he retired, I'm not sure. I'll ask him about that as he could have went on disability, I just dont remember it. Yes, I knew there was a max of about $1400 which is really about rediculous to try and live on or have anything if you have a mortgage or an expensive car payment. $835 would get you $10 thousand a year which would be a big help. To me, that ought to be the minimum for ones who have at least contributed for a while. Heck, that's still a good bit below the poverty level.
Posted by Josh McConaha on October 18, 2005 at 07:49 PM
You realize you have caused people to pull an all nighter, don't you?
;)
My dial up thanks you!
whatever Dem is running against J Kenneth Selloutwell for governor of Ohio?
Posted by MonicaR on October 18, 2005 at 08:03 PM
I'm backing Ted Strickland.
At the risk of appearing obsessive compulsive
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/02/i-think-you-ought-to-run-for-president.html
2006 and when do you guys think these indictments are going to come down. I'm thinking this whole administration is going to be indicted on conspiracy charges and treason. A swift cleaning of the whole executive branch. Hopefully. But Dems need to win in 2006 to make it all worth it.
www.moveon.org
I'm getting picky but I wish there wasn't so much white space underneath the comments box. It is kind of a pain each time you scroll down.
What are the best online groups of progressive Americans? The Sierra Club?
Hello, just stopping by to post a small local victory in GA and a typical response from a local Republican...
Federal judge grants voter ID injunction
Order suspends law requiring photo identification at polls
A federal judge in Rome today issued an order suspending a new state law requiring voters to show photo ID at the polls for the upcoming November municipal elections throughout Georgia.
U.S. District Judge Harold Murphy granted the injunction to lawyers for Common Cause of Georgia, the ACLU, the NAACP and other groups who challenged the law that requires Georgians to purchase a state-issued photo identification before voting.
The plaintiffs, Murphy found, have shown there is a substantial likelihood they will ultimately prevail in showing the photo ID requirement "unduly burdens the right to vote" and "constitutes a poll tax."
Murphy, in a 123-page order, said he had great respect for the Georgia Legislature, which passed the law earlier this year. "The court, however, simply has more respect for the Constitution," Murphy added....
Supporters of the law vowed to challenge the court decision.
"We'll appeal it until the Supreme Court makes a decision. Hopefully by then the President will have a good conservative court up there that understands the will of the people," said State Sen. Don Balfour, R-Snellvil
Domingo, are you on now? I have a question re the upcoming election in CA. You're in CA, right?
"1. Privacy in all matters.
The right likes to think "privacy" is code for abortion. That's a bit
too limited. It's not just that -- it's code for letting people make
decisions about their lives without the interference of government
into those decisions. This includes not just abortion, but birth
control, marriage, what goes on in your bedroom, the "war on
drugs," end-of-life choices (i.e. the Oregon law & Schiavo
intervention), medical & financial records, the Patriot Act, even guns."
PamB, I think this issue could help a long ways toward winning back our base. We sort of let the Republicans divide us over the gun issue...I don't think we are that far apart on it any more. Responsible gun ownership not bans on weapons is where we all seem to be heading.
And, with Bush now pushing for the military taking a major role in domestic tranquality issues, we might need all the guns we can get when Rummy decides it's time to "quarentine" parts of the population...to ethnic cleanse our political and religious views?
www.AirAmericaRadio.com is a good place to chill out from time to time.
As is www.RadioPower.org
{{Cin}} It's good to see ya, hopefully the automatic thread will make it easier to stop by
Have a great evening everybody!
I have a book called the Bush Survival bible by Gene Stone. It's a real light hearted read. However it does have some stuff like 9 groups to join. Moveon is #1.#2 is ACT (www.actforvictory.org) #3 Democracy for America (www.democracyforamerica.com) #4People for the American Way (www.pfaw.org) #5 Wellstone Action (www.wellstone.org) #6 Sierra Club (www.sierraclub.org) #7 League of women voters (www.lwv.org) #8 Progressive Majority(www.progressivemajority.org) #9 New Democrat Network (www.newdem.org)
Good evening, everyone.
Sandy: Sparta will be a good place to practice. http://dnr.state.il.us/worldshooting/home.htm
HaHa. Good to hear that the judge said that if you have to pay for an ID it's the equivalent to a poll tax.
Domingo,
"I think they also should hammer home how the Republicans never kept their promise on their own contract with America."
I fully agree. They welched on their promises -- pure and simple. Those who voted for them need to be reminded of what fools they were to trust such a crime family.
Why doesn't Dr. Dean direct a weekly offensive against each of their broken contractually agreements....send out a truth squad of the former presidential candidates and former media anchor persons to question, "What happened to this promise?" "Why didn't this happen when they thought it was so important that they signed a contract saying they would do it?"
I think people want to see Gore and Kerry/Cronkite and Rather again...remember when America used to be able to dream about the future -- not worry. It wouldn't hurt for voters to see some "guys with brains for a change" questioning the incompetence of the White House and their Congressional Republican coharts.
I notice that Yahoo News is reporting tonight that Rummy is accusing China of lying about their military budget...takes one to know owe?
Definition of perfect predictability:
CNN announces Bush's approval rating at lowest ever of his presidency -- 39%, and big surprise, there is a terror threat today that requires closing freeways and tunnels. This is no different from the silly color-code system that he used during his 2004 campaign.
This would almost be funny if it weren't for the fact that Mr. Bush ordered air strikes on civilians in Iraq -- killing 39 civilians (women and children), aka "insurgents" as a way of making sure that the Iraqis don't suddenly decide by "free choice" that they were going to reject the referendum on their constitution.
Suddenly the Iraqis announced that there may be flaws with the election (they ARE sovereign after all, aren't they???).
Yep, Mr. Bush will make no distinctions between American citizens, Iraqi citizens, insurgents, and terrorists. He despises all equally, and has no compunction about sacrificing and terrorizing them as much as he has to in order to hold onto his power and make profits from price gouging.
http:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/17/AR2005101701165.html//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/18/AR2005101800410.html
The mainstream press is starting to look more like the blogs. Josh Marshall is asking some excellent questions. Check it out, if you have time.
Though I will disagree with his management style and agree with the president's incompetence, I would in no way want to imply that just because he has an MBA, education and incompetent leadership are related, because if I were to make that assumption, that might just undercut a big issue that I support in my basic philosophy. Because the one thing I do believe in is a good solid education -- of course not that one can acquire a good education at Yale, because most people know that's false, especially when you "mail in" your education (much like "mailing in" your National Guard service). But the last thing I would want to do is to betray my own values by claiming that a leader is incompetent because of an excess of education rather than from a lack of it.
I would prefer to call it "badly misinformed leadership." That tends to put more responsibility on the leader because he wouldn't be so "misinformed" if he had the leadership competence enough to run a tight ship so that people don't mislead him.
Nice job, fade. Let's try this again, with Silence of the Lambshttp://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?issue_date=10-19-2005&ID=2005105857
Then again, when you're the president and your vice-president orders a "media hit" on an undercover CIA agent -- actions that his father George HW Bush called an action by the "most insidious of traitors" -- aided by his chief of staff and your own chief political advisor/strategist, then I would say that at the very least, that is "badly misinformed and incompetent" leadership.
If I were the president I would have more control over my staff so they all don't jump ship and go rogue and cause me and my family grave embarassment, not to mention jeopardizing national security. Of course, I would have hired better people, or even run as a Democrat, especially since he betrayed himself with that Harriet Miers nomination.
Still, I wouldn't make any beef with his nominal education as being the root cause of his incompetence. Simply put, the president's not a competent leader -- as a matter of character.
Folks,
You got to watch Front Line on PBS right now or later tonight. I'm going to tape it when it airs again. They're telling it all about prisoner abuse in Iraq and down in Guantonomo. They've got a interogater spilling it all. Look on their website under "The Torture Question". They was telling about breaking their feet with the blunt end of an axe. Locking them in a shipping container, freezing them, while causing hypothermia, and measuring their temp with an anal thermometer. They barley kept them alive. Then they would play loud music and flashing lights through this. Next, in come the interogator and the dogs. Another having them to crawl on their belly across the cell floor, while urinating on them. That's right folks, this is what Rummy and Bush says is okay!
I'm finding it awfully difficult to trust in the credibility of this Bush/Cheney/Rove/Libby-led government.
O'Lielly on Stewart tonight!
Wilma (they say) is heading right for me.
Wonderful. Not.
The Independant Lens is on PBS now showing more that's happening in Iraq.
DailyKos calling what we are waiting for Fitzmas.....gotta love it.
While Jerry Kilgore said that he would use surplus state dollars (more than likely from excessive taxes that he, as the incumbent governor, irrationally imposed on the fine people of Virginia) to sponsor "community projects," surely he can't intend to mean executing people of the community with a Hitlerian zeal can he? Does he support the death penalty so much that he's willing to overlook potential miscarriages of justice? Do residents of Virginia want innocent people murdered in their name?
Still, while it is a noble goal to widen I-66, Democratic candidate Tim Kaine at least wants to make sure that every driver in Virginia, including those who live in DC and Maryland and elsewhere in the country, and tourists, pay their fair share and contribute to highway construction projects in the fair state of Virginia. This is the true intention of the gas tax.
Let's be honest. While Jerry Kilgore refused to endorse his own campaign ads, claiming that his "campaign approved this message," at least Tim Kaine has the courage and strength to stand up for himself.
And Tim Kaine makes no bones about it: he may not agree with the law he will enforce, but at least Virgina voters will know where he stands. That type of honesty and courage and strength is to be commended and should be rewarded with your vote.
The time to change the tide is coming...
As we edge closer the the inevitable indictments of key Bush Administration figures (some blogs tonight are even reporting a possible indictment against VP Cheney), we will see Bush's approval rating fall below the pathetic 39% that Gallup released today.
As the already downtrodden administration braces to face admonishment from all quarters, I sincerely hope that key Democratic figures from Howard Dean on down come forth with an agressive message that resonates with the American people. As tempting as it is, this is not a time to say "I told you so." The Bush administration will be down, but unfortunately, not out. They will have an entire year to recover before the mid-terms, and it is simply unacceptable to allow them to continue to lie and distort their way back into the good graces of a very alienated electorate.
I hope they keep the message clear, simple and consistent. There is one problem however. I sit here as a lifelong Democrat, I am not exactly sure what the message will be. There is so much wrong with our country today, so much that they have done, that it is hard to focus on any one thing. A war based on lies, followed by needless deaths of our soldiers. Incompetence as evidenced the hurricane Katrina response as a result of blatant cronyism in filling important government posts. The insidious tax cuts during a war which only serve to fatten the pockets of the rich while accelerating the virtual demise of the middle class. At some point, there will be a lot of work to do to repair the catclysmic mess that our nation has become as a result of these morally bankrupt, reckless band of thugs. But for now, what is the message? What is the unifying message indeed?
just a quick note: SS is designed as an insurance plan. You can't live on that alone. You need to plan ahead. Of course, if you are already there, well look at SSI to augment. Still a real stretch. If you own your home, look at reverse mortgage as a good way to supplement the income stream.. Prime time TV on now here in CA. Night all.
How about Jerry Kilgore is a sleazy political opportunist that LIED when he told Virginians that he wanted to be Attorney General? We have to keep it simple in my area of Va. We're red.
Pam, CB
I wasn't advocating that they deserve a pay raise. I was simply pointing out that the vast majority of people in congress have two houses. I know that is hard to believe but they do. In fact, when I was in DC, many reps were living in their offices because they couldn't afford to pay for two homes. Hell, party leaders were forced to stop reps from doing this. A big insider joke was that many reps would find ways around the rules and still live in their offices. I even heard that one rep installed a flexible shower nozel on his sink faucet just so he could take a shower in his office.
Frostie
It is easy to highlight the negative and may service a purpose in framing a discussion and not keeping a secret....
HOWEVER one notion in modern sales tactics is the notion of pain points... and linking these to values is very potent... ANYWAY... my point is that no one BUYS solutions.. benifits... they buy percieved fixes to their pain points... . .. .. THAT is the job of the left to link the value points in society in a way that fixes the pain points ... THIS MAY mean linking the various "right wing" values that the left shares ...
Comcast is not sending my email tonight. Weird. I had to put it in my daughters hotmail box and resend it with her address.
What the heck is that all about? All of a sudden. Out of no where. Anyone else having trouble with Comcast in Florida?
Posted by CBwaltz on October 18, 2005 at 11:04 PM
CB, you shouldn't sell Virginians short; the candidates have not yet begun to defile themselves. :)
I'm not selling ALL virginians short Claudius. I had a neighbors kid tell my daughter that their sister couldn't be friends with my daughter because she "likes black people"(She has a African American friend). That was his idea of a joke. One of the Neo nazi organizers in Ohio was from less than an hour away from me. Nice huh? We have African American brothers and sisters dying in Iraq to protect these folks right to spew hate. It's all I can do sometimes to bite my tongue. Don't get me wrong, not everyone here is awful. But some of the folks make me want to hang my head in shame on behalf of the species.
Don't get me wrong, not everyone here is awfu
Guess I missed this part?
I love that old saying - "judge not...."
It's like that ABC poll where the majority said Americans are getting more rude yet none thought THEY had ever been rude.
Evening folks, have missed almost 24 hours of this blog because I'm swamped with work. Argh! But I will share these with you.
Leading by (Bad) Example by Thomas Friedman (I know, I know, he sucks, but tell me this one isn't worth a read)
Naughty Harry: Lawyering Without a License by MAUREEN DOWD
See y'all later if I ever get out from under this pile. Hugs
Dawn,
I'm a pretty tolerant person but nothing makes me sicker than folks that have a superiority complex because of a lack of melanin in their skin. My daughter is still allowed to play with the little girl next door but I watch very closely when the son who made that comment is around.
We have African American brothers and sisters dying in Iraq to protect these folks right to spew hate. It's all I can do sometimes to bite my tongue. Don't get me wrong, not everyone here is awful. But some of the folks make me want to hang my head in shame on behalf of the species.
Posted by CBwaltz on October 18, 2005 at 11:45 PM
CBwaltz, I know exactly how you feel
CBwaltz on October 19, 2005 at 12:20 AM
I, and my son (age 8), are in a difficult position in our neighborhood. We just moved here two months ago, and before moving in were warned of other boys that were picking on a boy of a mixed relationship.
My son, desperately in need of friendship himself, went out of his way and bent over backwards to befriend this child. After about three weeks this supposedly victomized boy was calling my son names, being very disrespectful to me, and told my son he couldn't wait until my son did not go into fourth grade next year.
I have tried to intervene by telling both boys that friends do not help friends do things wrong. However, this boy (he's a year older than mine) continud with his oppositional defiant behavior, and tried to get my son to go along with him in his disrespectfulness of me.
I have always taught my son that the color of a persons skin, or the sex of the person does not matter, but this situation has made trying times for my son and myself.
BlackLikeMe on October 19, 2005 at 12:51 AM
BlackLikeMe, it sounds like you are doing an awesome job raising your son, he is so fortunate to have you and he'll grow up to be a great, caring adult. The racism in this country, especially in the South, still blows my mind, I just don't get it..but I'm certain, the two of you will do just great
ok, really outta here...{{{everybody}}} goodnight!
I was watching Cspan couple minutes ago and could not believe what I heard, ...with Dennis Kucinich D-Ohio questioning some of the Army inspector general on who is auditing the work of reconstruction in Iraq. This guy smiles and stated no one.
NO ONE is watching our $200,000,000,000.00+ dollars being spent in Iraq?
Mr. Kucinich asked if the contactors or pentagon procurement department knew if the infrastructure being repaired was due to war.
The Pentagon official laughed at him and stated he assures the Senator the money is spending wisely. The pointed to a new substation that was build with billions. But the pentagon procurement office never repaired the power line to hook up the substation. They laughed at him to tell him they are not determining where or which work is prioritized.
Billions going out the door on work that cannot be verified or prioritized and these Bush neocons are laughing at Dennis Kucinich’s effort to get answers on a very general audit.
Posted by BlackLikeMe on October 19, 2005 at 12:51 AM
Some kids can be so mean. It makes me crazy. My son endured a lot of abuse over the years -- not because of his skin color. He is learning disabled and in special education. Fortunately, he this kind of treatment has diminished in the past few years. I have handled it similarly to how you have handled the situation with your son. Keep doing what you are doing. It takes time and patience, but it works out in the end.
I remember when he was 8, and it was awful! Nothing more painful than seeing our kids subjected to hatred and mistreatment. My son is 17 now. He's confident. He manages his own band (NO DRUGS!!). He has mentored other kids, and he's fabulous with the young ones because he remembers what it was like.
Hang in there.
The Bush cronies voted down the ability to audit the work and budget spent on Iraq, Katrina, and Rita. Now these guys are laughing at our representatives trying to get some basic answers on where Americas money is going.
These un-American non-patriots are nothing but religious zealots and thieves.
Prejudice Sucks, in noun or verb, preconception in most cases leads to misconception, which in turn leads arrogance of both sides not being able to admit their part in the preconception. I love meeting new people, but I do not understand why these new people always end up trashing me. I just wish it would stop, but do not know how to make it stop. Another thing I tell my son is if he is a friend then he will have friends. But then I have to recoil about being lead into doing things that either are not right or things that may hurt himself or others.
I think a lot of our problems stem from the small town in which we currently reside. People have preconcluded us before they ever really meet us, and that is definitely not right; just the way it is.
All I know it hurts when I lay beside my son to get him to go to sleep and he is crying and asks me why his life is so screwed up. Makes me feel really good. So I can safely say that I do know the feelings of oppression, and it sucks!!
Hey, thanks for letting me vent, or bleed, or sob.
RoseZ on October 19, 2005 at 01:09 AM
RoseZ,
Thanks for the encouragement!!:) I am glad everything has worked out for you and your son, and my sons future is what I cling. I just feel it is the truest value of my self worth.
BlackLikeMe, it sucks for sure. Be well, hugs to you and your son, and keep being the rock in his life that he needs, you're doing great.
Hugs,
Andrea
"What is the unifying message indeed?"
Blue, the message is: we hold these truths self- evident that all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights and among these are life, liberty ande the pursuit of happiness.
Let those who say we Democrats don't believe there's a place for religion in democracy examine these words closely. Noah's ark is the foundation of Jefferson's philosophy...and it grows stronger with every year.
The founders of our Party wrote those words over 200 years ago, and they are still our message to the masses of hopeful and aspiring citizens wanting the best for their country and their countrymen.
Those that don't like this message will never vote for us. Let the Republicans continue to make promises to them that they don't plan to keep about taxes, national security, and family values. Let them continue to play on the fears of those not like themselves instead of celebrating the differences that make us great. Their lies are just that and they are finally catching up with them.
Instead we need to rally the downtrowden and the sick of spirit. The last four years, and the the last eight months in particular, have worn away at the fabric of our souls. Our citizenry feels the weight of Republican incompetence, confusion, and corruption. There is a profound sense of unease and disillusionment. It's the hue and cry of a nation adrift and forlorn...and sick of Republican mediocrity.
We must make them believe we can triumph over these fears for the future. Let us remind our fellow citizens that democracy is not won on foreign shores with guns and intimidation. It's won in our own backyards with honest labor for honest wages. Let's encourage those of good will from all political persuasions to join us in finding ways to make the most of a bad situation about to get worse.
It's only beginning to dawn of many that our Republican "leaders" have sold our future down the river to the Communist Chinese and Arab oil sheiks who were more than willing to exploit their greed. Their multinational capitalism is nothing more than economic slavery dependent on the whims of our foreign creditors. Let's remind everyone in this nation that we are are free men and will not accept the yoke that the Republicans have placed on our shoulders.
We are Americans. Let those in the world that believe we are past our prime watch in amazement when they see how we overcome the challenges that lay ahead.
Our country is a mere infant in an old and weary world. But we have a propensity for learning fast and improvising as we go along. Nothing -- not traitors within, not a self-indulged despot with expensive cowboy boots and mountain bike, nor a stagering national debt -- will slow us down when our hearts are carrying us forward.
We hold this truth self-evident: We don't have to believe in anybody's else's vision of God, because we have put our trust in the free will He gave us instead. We can be masters of our own fate and good stewards of the ark He placed in our keeping.
So let's make the most of the days ahead and the hope that lies there. That is our message. Have faith in ourselves...He created us in His image.
HybridFuel on October 19, 2005 at 01:12 AM
HybridFuel,
You are right and it's a good thing that you know it!! This lack of budgeting control must be made a viable issue in 2006 and 2008. Remember the contract with [on] America back in 1994. The rebugs gained control of congress pledging to bring back constraint in budgeting to DC. They are all guilty of breach of contract and in my opinion need to be terminated.
Another thing I tell my son is if he is a friend then he will have friends. But then I have to recoil about being lead into doing things that either are not right or things that may hurt himself or others.
Been there. Done that. Finally told my son that he shouldbe respectful and caring, but IF that is not returned, the other person is not his friend and not worth his efforts. It's a tough lesson to teach -- how to move on and realize when a relationship is a liability.
All I know it hurts when I lay beside my son to get him to go to sleep and he is crying and asks me why his life is so screwed up.
It does hurt. There's only so much a parent can do, and bandaids are not the way to go. When my son was 10, his teacher screamed at him in front of his class, "You'll never amount to anything!" It was horrible, and he became suicidal. Tough times and a long fight for me on his behalf both through the school and through intervention medically. It's so hard when you can't just kiss the kid and make it better. I understand your pain.
You can't make the ignorance stop. We, as Dems, know that (for the most part). The only thing we can do is empower the receptive to stand their ground even when it is not necessarily the popular thing to do. You are doing that. Keep empowering your son. It's hard, and there is no manual to help with that. But I think your instincts are right on.
BlackLikeMe on October 19, 2005 at 01:28 AM
Or thanks to my typo, "The rebugs gained control of congress..." maybe they need to be exterminated. Jokingly, only about my typo, not referring to the Ahhnold movie. Please take it as a joke, only.
Okay, rebugs=repugs
Sorry for the late-night, non-political diatribe. Guess I'll go to bed.
The Republican Contract With America was an evil co-opting of the Democratic agenda. From the beginning it was a perversion of Democratic goals and efforts, and was accompanied by a snicker from its author. Let's not do something that remotely smacks of that. We democrats are smarter, wiser and way more original. Perhaps we should be engaging in the Reformation of our More Perfect Union to support the rights and dignity of of all citizens. Well, OK, my alter ego would like to create these theses and nail them to a coffin that represents Republican sham and mockery, but that would be Newt Gingrich drama-Yuk! WE will have to work harder and really edit our drama so we too don't only fool some of the people instead of drawing most of the people into a real sustainable change process
SandyH on October 19, 2005 at 01:23 AM
I can never help relating our constitution to the European Age of Enlightenment. Choice of religion. Seperation of church and state.
Marly on October 19, 2005 at 01:39 AM
Good Sense!! However, I think the recent past along with the present time will show the "real sustainable change process." We must get people to realize what happened under Reaganomics vs. Clintonomics vs. Bushanomics. I am referring of course to the huge deficits under Reagan and Bush tax cut schemes, and the great creation of wealth under Clinton's plan. Not all of Clinton's success can be directed to the dot com explosion. The people in charge of spending the economy into health, lower-middle/middle class, simply had more money in which to succeed and when they succeeded the wealthy class succeeded exponentially.
Here's an interesting website about the works of Thomas Paine:
Thomas Paine (1737–1809). Common Sense. 1776.
And here is a snippet from the site:
Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers of paradise.
Goodnight folks!!:-)
Laundry is done, now I must try to get some sleep. Work tomorrow; PM shift, Son with relatives again.
One last post about Hurricane Wilma:
Hurricane Hunters have just recorded a pressure of 901 mb, the 5th lowest pressure ever recorded in the Atlantic Basin. This represents a 69 mb drop in less than 8 hours! Winds are now up to 150 mph making this a Category 4 hurricane. Wilma could become a Category 5 later this morning. Hurricane watches have been extended up to parts of Cuba and the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico. Hurricane Wilma is moving west-northwestward at 8 mph and this general motion is expected to continue for the next 24 hours. Heavy showers are likely in Jamaica, the Cayman Islands, northern Honduras and southern Cuba. Wilma may try to slip through the Yucatan Channel into the extreme southern Gulf of Mexico and turn to the east or northeast. Residents of the southern Florida, including the Keys, should begin thinking about the possibility of a hurricane strike sometime this coming weekend.
Hope all in Southern FL get out of the way.
I like Blacklikeme's post on comparing Clinton vs. Republican administrations. More to the point I feel we've done a disservice to Clinton because we don't talk about his successes.
Yes, America was prosperous during the Clinton administration and Clinton was popular internationally. Why, and where do we go from there?
The Republicans never stopped asserting the economy just sprung up on its own. They still believe he had nothing to do with it. Bush has done a great job of showing us that view is wrong.
The economy grew in the 90's because Clinton promoted small business growth, especially in the tech sector. Banks were watched better, debt laws reformed, capital made more available for start-ups, tech education expanded, small businesses were protected from big businesses.
Clinton didn't start off advocating Globalism. He kind of stumbled on it, but by the end he was the clear leader of globalism. Nations including China and Iran were falling over themselves to be more like us.
We should also look at the war in Kosovo, especially in contrast with Iraq. The Kosovar campaign was a true triumph of international democracy. The results were exactly what we want to see for every dictatorship.
I would like to see more Dems point out his successes instead of apologize for him. We should also use his successes as a foundation to move forward as a nation.
Instead of "Contract With America" we should call it "Partnership with America"....
Posted by Kathy_in_Indiana on October 18, 2005 at 09:45 AM
I really like this suggestion Kathy. The point is not so much whether we call it a "Contract With America", rather it is the brilliance of defining what the Democrats are FOR in contrast with their opponents. That was the genius of Newt's "Contract", like it or not.
I would argue that what we need for the mid-term elections is NOT to load such a pact with the American people with ALL of the issues including national defense. That is certainly required for the 2008 national elections. Mid-terms are about domestic, pocket-book issues and we have plenty of these to address.
If you haven't already read George Lakoff's book: Don't Think of an Elephant: Know Your Values, Frame the Debate (2004 I'd urge you to do so. Go to http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/people/lakoff for details. He discusses the art and science of "framing" political discourse. The Republicans have become masters at this. The Democrats have a long ways to go!
Marly, get real. If the Democrats don't get their heads out of the clouds we will be on the outside looking in for a looooooooooong time. I don't like what Newt's "Contract" represented in it's detail but it was a brilliant effort to DEFINE Republicans who were on the outside and seeking control of the House of Representatives. AND IT WORKED! They tapped into a sense of discontent. They articulated their vision, defined by specific action items.
Where is the Democratic vision? And how do we speak to a broad spectrum of swing voters who ultimately decide elections? It is frustrating to watch the Republicans do just about everything wrong while the Democrats can't even articulate what they're for. It would seem to be a very easy marketing challenge that a combined political science and MBA class could solve in an afternoon. Meanwhile, we keep waiting.
The ninth hour political "deal" struck last week involving the Iraq constituion had Karl Rove's fingerprints all of it. I can hear him saying: "Let's get a 'yes' vote regardless of what we have to do, even if we open up the possibility of changes to the constittution in the future."
And not to leave anything to chance, how about stuffing ballot boxes as well? Given their practice in Florida and Ohio, Iraq should be a cake walk.
This from a "everything is political" team that watches polls ALL of the time.
Posted by Dunkling on October 19, 2005 at 05:06 AM
Considering that there are people with a brain disfunction which keeps them from recognizing the negative as the opposite of the positive, it's probably a good idea to practice saying things in positive terms.
For example: Jesus didn't say, "don't hate your neighbor;" he said "love your neighbor."
It really shouldn't be too hard.
For the record, if you check out the Hannah blog
click
you'll find the following:
February 23, 2004
Shrub Removal
The main goal of the Howard Dean campaign was and continues to be to remove the current administration from office. Now, how's that going to be accomplished?
Shrub and his cronies have to be removed, one way or another. Either at the ballot box or through impeachment. The ballot box is quicker and marginally neater. But, if the ballot box doesn't work, it will have to be done by the House of the people and that means a significant spinal stiffening.
Since every single member of that body is subject to re-evaluation this year, it would seem that there's a lot of work to be done. If enough of us just get off our duffs and do it.
Right now, since Congress is still in session it's a good time to evaluate potential challengers as to their commitment to change. Then when the members come home to their districts, even as early as the Easter holidays, they can be interviewed as to their commitment to voting to impeach. It's a simple question. Will you vote to impeach or not?
While it's very difficult if not impossible to hold someone to account for NOT doing what they were supposed to (Reagan got away with not implementing all kinds of legislative directives), in this case we are dealing with things that were done--troops that were ordered into war without good reason, people who have been detained contrary to national and international legal standards. Who knows what else? The people whom it was done to know. All they have to be sure of is that their witnessing will be protected and acted on.
good morning friends and neighbors. look what those godless, sneaky scientists are up to. what an evil bunch, we all know pat robertson will tell us if there is anything for our chaste christian nation to worry about;
LONDON (Reuters) - World scientists are aiming to spell out in graphic detail the threat of flooding faced by millions of people from America to Asia as global warming melts the polar ice caps.
A major coordinated study of the Arctic and Antarctic ice sheets intends not only to lay the bald facts before world leaders but offer courses of action.
"We want to be more prescriptive," said David Carlson, head of International Polar Year (IPY) starting in March 2007.
The two year study, announced on Wednesday by the International Council for Science (ICSU), will be the first coordinated probe in 50 years of the ice-bound ends of the earth under the onslaught of climate change.
get that shore front property while it lasts1
internet weekly goes the sick humor route:
coat hanger lady
Good Morning All!
what a poignant irony it would be, if on the day Sadaam goes to trial, indictments are handed down to members of the cabal that first put him into power, then initiated a war based on manufactured evidence to remove him.
Good Morning ALL!!
'Mash' reworked to zing Bush on environment policies
October 19, 2005
Bobby "Boris" Pickett -- protest singer?
The spooky, deadpan voice driving the perennial Halloween hit "Monster Mash" is still alive (who knew?) and has recorded a new version of the song, with lyrics lambasting President Bush's policies on global warming and climate change.
"Climate Mash" is accompanied by a lampooning 'toon at www. climatemash.org. The well-known tune now ridicules Bush science advisers, calling them "the zombies and vampires of global climate change" with Pickett singing, "The creatures were having fun / Our Congress was overrun / We couldn't tell the mindless zombies / From the elected ones."
"Mash" Reworked
Listen to the song HERE
Good morning, all.
"It would seem to be a very easy marketing challenge that a combined political science and MBA class could solve in an afternoon."
It would appear that the Me/Al Frankin generation still thinks democracy is a bottle of Pepsi and that all you have to do is sell it the right way. I've worked in marketing, and it not that simple with a grocery product much less a political philosophy.
We don't have to sell something to the American voters. We have to give them them better answers to their fears. If you want simple answers, that's the best one I can come up with.
bb, I can't believe that Saddam will not use the defense that the Reagan/Bush administration made him to do it. And it will resonate among the Iraqis as the truth. Why does this administration continue to underestimate the hatred of our occupation? It's so strong that even Saddam will be able to tap into it to his benefit.
morning sandy, cyn, dpd, bb- wow everyone is out of bed and got their feet on the floor ( i know, i know yer workin stiffs and all but a pensioned off slacker can joke can't he?).
now here is a tale that kinda gets ya. the house wanted to gut the food stamp program to help off set the give aways to halliburton in louisiana bu the senate republican agriculture committee members killed it, probably because it reduced their piece of the federal pie. anyhow 300,000 citizens won't be as destitute as they might have been.
Senate Plan to Cut Food Stamps Dies
Associated Press
Wednesday, October 19, 2005; Page A06
Senate Republicans have dropped plans to cut the popular food stamp program, as the chamber's leaders scrambled to assemble a $35 billion spending cut measure to implement the budget plan it adopted in April.
After protests from Agriculture Committee members Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) and James M. Talent (R-Mo.), panel Chairman Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) dropped more than $500 million in food stamp cuts from a farm and food subsidy measure coming to a committee vote today. The cuts could have meant a loss of benefits for 300,000 working families benefiting from more generous eligibility rules in some states.
The development on food stamps illustrates the political sensitivity of the upcoming debate over the spending cut bill, which would spread the $35 billion in cuts over five years. Various House and Senate committees are conducting behind-the-scenes talks to devise spending cut plans to implement the budget.
The conservative-dominated House plans to up the ante to $50 billion in cuts as it votes as early as tomorrow to revise the budget. The Senate has no such plans.
Question to all,
A friend sent me an email this morning with this question, "is it ever acceptable to torture a prisoner?"
My immediate answer was a resounding "no." However, upon reflection, I had to change my answer. For example, would I torture somebody to find out the location of a nuclear bomb that was set to go off in a US city -- damn straight I would. I could go on with other examples but you get my point. What do you all think?
Frostie
watched colbert's show the past two nights and really found him funny. i don't know if he will be able to keep the pace and content up over time but the writing is good whoever the heck is doing it.
Posted by Frostie94 on October 19, 2005 at 08:20 AM
Frostie, I don't believe in torturing people...and I think you have been watching too many Bruce Willis movies.
harriet, harriet, harriet---what to make of this bit of insanity? she seems a complete bozo and ought to be toast but then the next kid in the hall is likely to be a much more clear cut nazi/fundie quack so what to do...if harriet gets the seat it is possible she will turn to pill gobbling and drink after spending a few hours in the cloakroom with clarence and antoni and then we might have us a supreme court justice who jumps up on the table at white house events with a lamp shade on her head and shows off here red,white and blue miracle bra!
can't we just put all these monsters on a ship to nowhere and never let them dock again?
excellent show on pbs last night about gitmo, rummy and so on. had some interrogation experts on who had some views on the effectiveness of torture as an information gathering technique...you should try to watch it frostie.
Maybe I have been watching too many movies, but that still is an interesting question and there is a great possibility that such a situation might (and probably will) come up.
Like you, I am opposed to torture but my original example does pose an interesting question. I was just curious to see what people thought.
Miers backed ban on most abortions in '89
President Bush knew of the views she had held before he picked her for the court, spokesman Scott McClellan said at the White House. But he said the president "did not discuss with her or anyone else whether or not those were still her views."
Sorry Gregg
I passed right by it last night and watched a show on the history channel about WWI and British losses in Turkey.
dont get me wrong, I love tv, but it seems that the quality of tv has gone down hill (except for Lost and Smallville) and there is never anything on. If it wasn't for Food TV or the History Channel, I would never watch tv.
Good morning fellow democrats.
With wholesale price inflation the worst in 15 years, and consumer price inflation the worst in 25 years, the conservatives have nothing better to offer than their wacky brand of economics.
If high fuel prices, interest rates, home prices or more mattter to you, then check this out:
THE WACKY,WACKY WORLD OF CONSERVATIVE ECONOMICS
thanks kristen. hope all is well with you.
frostie-it is a wasteland but pbs continues to offer many superb shows as was the one last night i refer to. try to catch it before the book burners in washington tire or books and turn to video...
must pupify now.
gregg, I think Harriet has the real potential of becoming another Sandra Day O'Connor. Once she gets a life-time appointment, she doesn't have to a gush over her betters or kowtow to the men who have always told her she was lucky to have had the chances they have given her.
Evangelical or not, I think she will chart her own course and tell Scalia to go to purgatory if he trys to tell her how to rule. Maidien ladies have a mind of their own and hidden desires that they have not been allowed to admit to themselves.
Harriet will be free to think for herself for the first time in her life. It must be a very scarey thought for the Christian Right...women aren't suppose to have such power. Men are suppose to make all the important decisions. They won't be able to control her.
Whether she votes with them or against them, It will be HER CHOICE. The realization that this is possible could be empowering. Or she might just go with the flow.
One thing for certain, she isn't Ashcroft or Gonzales.
I disagree that there's nothing great on TV, Frostie94. What about the three CSI programs? Or the Law And Order Franchise. The Simpsons and South Park are near genius satire and parody. Criminal Minds gets better by the week. My Name Is Earl is pure twisted genius. Every scene is hilarious and politically as incorrect as nearly possible. Crossing Jordan is very stylish, and every episode very engrossing. Numbers is a great Friday night fare. American Chopper, Horsepower TV, Car And Driver TV, Monster Garage, are great testosterone coated fun. War historicals on the History Channel as well programs like Nova on Educational TV are very worthy fare. Regional cable programs like Super Atomic TV hosted by a campy big eyed actress who informs the viewer of little known facts about bad SCIFI films like Ed Wood's masterpiece, Plan Nine From Outer Space, considered to be the Citizen Kane of bad movies is real laugh inducing gem. Who knew that Ed Wood donned a wig and gown portraying a fainted woman in one scene? If it wasn't for the miracle of SuperVHS VCRs to record several great shows at once to be able to watch all eventually, then I'd don't know what I'd do.
By the way, the other day I posted a great editorial story on how ABC has cut Desperate Housewives down to mere 41 minutes to milk 19 minutes of ads, some costing $600,000 out of the program. Any TV viewer interested in the economics of the TV networks should check this out:
DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES
HA HA
From Today's QT Column:
Judge not
News Item: Man sets world record by completing 206 jumps on a pogo stick in one minute while carrying a dog.
And is being kept in mind should a third Supreme Court vacancy occur.
Posted by SandyH on October 19, 2005 at 08:00 AM
Better yet, get rid of the fear-mongers.
Hey DPD - I find myself in the unimaginable position of rooting for the White Sox. (did I say that out loud?) How about you?
Gregg - Ugly Cat update:
Apple is in the process of taking over my house. My daughter is repulsed by her and refuses to pet her. My sister saw her and screamed. My niece exclaimed upon seeing her "Oh that's just wrong". She looks like an accidental breeding of a spider monkey, E.T., and an anorexic rat. I am totally in love.
sandyh, i like your optimism. i hope reality matches it. i hope the issues and concerns you list are ones she holds and not just projections of what women such as yourself think and feel.
joan, what kind of cat is it? my wife and ex wife are both cat nuts and i want to goggle some pictures of it.
She's a Cornish Rex. There are two Rex's - one's a Devon, one's a Cornish. She's Cornish.
Here is another thing about the impromptu conference between bush and the troops....
Bush uses military as props - revisited
Speaking of television (Frostie and Paul Hoosen), other than the nightly news, the only shows I watch (on tape since I go to bed early) are listed below.
Since they are usually on past my bedtime) I make sure to tape the shows noted below.
The problem is, I am way behind on watching these tapes, since after I get home, have dinner, then watch the 6:30pm news, I usually do some work (yes, work not play) on my PC.
So, the only time I can watch these tapes is during my morning work-out - but I have to be at work between 7am and 8am depending on the day. So, I and my dog are usually up at 4:00am.
Thank goodness for weekends.
ER
Without a Trace
CSI (the original Las Vegas version)
Grey's Anatomy
Cold Case
The Office
My Name Is Earl
Speaking of television, at least for Dems, and knowing that news needs to be objective, which network 6:30pm news is most satisfying to watch in your opinion? I usually watch NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams. There was a nice update on the CIA leak in yesterday's (Tuesday's) broadcast.
The issue as I see it on the national TV news at 6:30pm (at least for those in the Eastern Time Zone) is not whether or not there is objectivity, but rather what stories they choose to include or to exclude and in what light the included stories are presented.
The Republicans never raise taxes, right? They just pass the grief on to the state legislatures who pass it on to the poor who get curtailed services. Or they increse fees on the middle class saying it's because of 9/11 or Katrina recovery costs.
Bait and switch, Republican-sytle
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/18/politics/18medicare.html?th&emc=th
gregg, if there is one thing I'm certain of, it's the frustration of menopausal women. We get irritated easily and use any slight as a reason to take action. Don't mess with, Harriet.
Is it Fitzmas yet? How many more days?
Frostie,
Torture is not always effective when gathering information. Therefore, I would prefer we use other methods. Then there is that whole Geneva Convention thing we signed, I believe that if you give your word you should keep it. Obviously the GOP's word means little to nothing....Contract with America, Geneva convention...I'm sure I could think of more as the day rolls on.
Grey's Anatomy. The Simpsons. and reruns of Sex and the City. These are worth watching. I am not someone who understands the appeal of these CSI shows, at all.
Do people who like to entertain this "torture is worth it, sometimes!" scenario not get how this endangers American troops, and American agents, and coarsens the person contemplating it? It's beyond disgusting that this is a topic even under discussion.
I've said it before: Bush has damaged my faith, in good, in humanity, in God.
sandyh, i am familiar with this reality. i worked for two women for alot of years and had the benefit of their biological changes for study material. my wife is on the verge but just the monthly stuff what with her flying around the house on her broom and all is terrifying...i on the other hand as a stable, rational male just ocsilate between homicidal ideation, exhuberance and dark depression about every ten minutes....you can't just sit in the stands when your at the mercy of your glands....
kimb, the law and order "crimminal intent" is good and i really liked "the closer". also this new show the office is funny and poignant and of course what about seinfeld reruns and if you have home box larry david....
what's the phrase: Testilying?
Rice to face tough questions on Iraq
www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/19/iraq.usa.rice.reut/index.html
-- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice faces tough questions by lawmakers on Wednesday over U.S. policy in Iraq where more than 150,000 U.S. troops are fighting a bloody insurgency.
Rice is set to testify on U.S.-Iraq policy at a hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on the same day that former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein goes on trial in Baghdad for "crimes against humanity."
Blacklikeme,
How'd your son like to get a penpal? I have a thirteen year old son who lives to make friends. It's difficult sometimes because at his age they think they know enough but really what they know is enough to get in trouble. It's hard sometimes finding balance between giving him some leg room to explore who he is and protecting him from making a mistake that could impact his future.
An exultant President Bush appeared to whisper to his top aide Karl Rove as they headed for Indiana in July.
WASHINGTON - An angry President Bush rebuked chief political guru Karl Rove two years ago for his role in the Valerie Plame affair, sources told the Daily News.
http://nydailynews.com/front/story/357107p-304312c.html
Bush Wacked Rove on CIA leak - link from DavidB - excellent article - thanks
CB
I agree, once you give your word you must keep it. But you and I are both smart enough to find exceptions to that rule. With that said, is it your position that there are "never" any circumstances in which torture should be used.
With regard to the tv posts, I forgot about South Park (and I watch it every week). I also forgot about Extreme Home Makeover (which my wife and I watch). Other than that, I dont understand why people watch Law and Order, CSI, or any cop show.
Frostie
Kim
I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Somebody asked me this question and I simply wanted to find out what others thought. I agree torture is wrong. But are there any circumstances in which it is acceptable? That is a legitimate question.
Frostie
Wow...I didn't even have to sign in this morning!
Good Morning, Dems!
Posted by DavidB on October 19, 2005 at 10:04 AM
David:
Isn't the Daily News a right-wing paper? And if so, I get the distinct impression that they're trying to portray dumbya being "appropriately angry" at the time...NOT!!!
Sandy,
One of the biggest problems I have with Miers (and with Roberts) is not the religious aspect. I don't think these republicans really care about religion. What they really care about is money and corporate greed. Watch them destroy our environmental and health standards in the name of the cost of doing business.
Kim - CSI has no torture. I only watch the NY one 'cause I like Gary Sinise, and I like the way they piece together the crime. It's the only cop/crime show I watch (except, of course for watching the bush crime family, heh heh).
24 has torture weekly. I liked the show, but couldn't take it halfway through last season, so I stopped watching that. It is my understanding that torture is completely unreliable as a technique for getting information. Just as abstinance education is completely unreliable in reducing pregnancies and STD's. Just as only listening to loyalist supporters is completely unreliable in keeping in touch with the "pulse" of America. Just as free market, unregulated capitalism is completely unreliable in establishing American-made fuel-efficient cars in the wake of, say, an energy crisis. Just as deregulation, in general, is completely unreliable in preventing an energy crisis, healthcare crisis, truth-in-media crisis, etc.
sigh.
It's not torture on TV I was objecting to -- although I can't stomach much visual violence. I was addressing two different topics, without benefit of segue -- sorry! It's my ADHD personality.
I have been meaning to watch "The Closer." Anyone know what night it's on? I'm pretty new to this TV stuff -- my girlfriend just got us cable so i'm catching up.I've always thought The Simpsons was the absolute best show on television for its quality, given that it's run for so many years. Matt Groening is a genius.
frostie, a "philosophical" discussion of possible justifications for torture can't truly happen in a written format. it's interesting on the surface, i'll grant you - but it requires TALK -- and in these times, with this criminal president, the whole topic leaves me hurling.
Yes Frostie,
If you have made a pledge to the international community and you are uncertain about the actual information you will obtain through torture, I see absolutely no reason that torture would be beneficial. Personally, when I give my word.....I don't look for loopholes. I like the people who I give my word to ,to KNOW that I tried my very best to fulfill what I said.
Posted by Frostie94 on October 19, 2005 at 10:12 AM
how about ONLY Bush Lemmings?
Hey I'm trying to avoid getting on the FEC listings for fear of Republican retaliation. Is it $200 total per year that gets you on the list. Or is $200 to a single campaign? Like if I gave $25 to 10 campaigns around the country, would that get me on the list? I don't understand the system, and I don't want to make a mistake and get hurt because of it.
Kim
I think the Closer had it's season finale for the season. Kyra Sedgewick is really good.
Posted by Karen on October 19, 2005 at 10:14 AM
Great post, Karen!
For those of us enamored of crusty sarcastic geniuses with a limp, HOUSE is a great show. And it's got Vicodin.
So Wilma blew up to a Cat 5 overnight. That is 3 this year!! Holy Ecology !! WE need to add the fact we have "tortured" the environment as well since W blew in.
This whole disgusting rich man's club needs to be thrown OUT or in to JAIL.
Speaking of torture, my Norwegian born Grandfather, Captain John Einarson was the captain of the major merchant ship, The Ipswitch. While transporting tons of military wares to American, British and Australian troops during WWII, his ship was captured by the Japanese Navy. He was brutally tortured and flogged by his Japanese captors in a wasted attempt to get information about troop positions from him.
Torture doesn't prove much. A person will say anything to get the torture to stop. It's like having to prove a negative. Torture isn't only morally wrong, and endangers Americans who may be captured, but often proves little or get good information.
In a far different area. Joan and Gregg mentioned cats. I love them. I have six cats. One I call "Baby" likes to sleep on my lap. When I leave the house, he jumps on the table so he can grab me and give me a "kitty kiss" head butt before I leave the house. And he'll greet me when I come home the same way. He wants me to turn on the sink, so he can get a drink, then wipes his mouth dry on a curtain like a table napkin. Cats are an amazing animal. They have a great capacity to love just as much as dogs do. They're just a little person in a fur suit.
PROGRESSIVE VALUES
You'll have to wait to Spring or Summer for new episodes of The Closer, KimB. Some cable shows like Kojak, The Closer, Nip And Tuck, Monk, Wanted, The 4400, Battlestar Gallactia and others cut out a niche market when the networks are running reruns. Another good cable program, Witchblade died when the lead actress had reported ongoing personal problems with alcohol abuse despite acceptable ratings. Tonight South Park starts a new short few week season. Set your VCRs kiddies!
Ooo Steph Miller is on point today. With her "you're a lying sack of crap" song referenced to Harriet saying "no one knows my views on Roe V Wade"
hahaha!
from Karen @ 10:07:
A second well-placed source said some recently published reports implying Rove had deceived Bush about his involvement in the Wilson counterattack were incorrect and were leaked by White House aides trying to protect the President.
"Bush did not feel misled so much by Karl and others as believing that they handled it in a ham-handed and bush-league way," the source said.
looking like Watergate only much, much, much more serious. Soon Bush will have jowls like Nixon and will be walking the corridors of the residence late at night talking to paintings on the wall.
Raoul
Frist has no chance imo. Just the cat thing alone would be enough for ALL cat owners. But we'd have to prove it of course as the LEMMINGS refuse to listen to anyone telling the truth!
Israel, Iran, and the US: Nuclear War, Here We Come
The stage is set for a chain of events that could lead to nuclear war over chemical weapons in the immediate future. If these events unfold, the trigger will be Israel, the target Iran, the nuclear aggressor the U.S. These are the reasons:
rut roh! (see link at Vets for Common Sense)
sigh! this can't be happening!
Dawnelle: Nixon really did that, although i wasn't there to see it, i believe it. he did so much more.
Well my daughter just called from the Bank she works at - they are already talking about if they will have to close up before the hurricane if it heads this way.
She wanted to know what day we'd be heading NORTH or if we were - doh - if it doesn't peter out before it gets here - yep we are OUT of here!
Paul,
I have often said that are dog is like a very young child and requires lots and lots of attention while our cats are rather like teenagers they need some supervision but not nearly as much. Both sets of animals need love. I buy a large bag of cat food a week to feed the neighborhood strays. I figure none of Gods creatures should die cold, alone, starving and unloved.
bb
I knew Nixon did the "I'm not a crook" line as I've seen it repeated through the years by comics but I didn't know he wandered the halls of the White House talking to paintings? LOL
What years was he President? Of the top of anyone's head? (too lazy to look it up just now)
I think I was in junior high.
Within a few months, his administration was embattled over the so-called "Watergate" scandal, stemming from a break-in at the offices of the Democratic National Committee during the 1972 campaign. The break-in was traced to officials of the Committee to Re-elect the President. A number of administration officials resigned; some were later convicted of offenses connected with efforts to cover up the affair. Nixon denied any personal involvement, but the courts forced him to yield tape recordings which indicated that he had, in fact, tried to divert the investigation.
As a result of unrelated scandals in Maryland, Vice President Spiro T. Agnew resigned in 1973. Nixon nominated, and Congress approved, House Minority Leader Gerald R. Ford as Vice President.
Faced with what seemed almost certain impeachment, Nixon announced on August 8, 1974, that he would resign the next day to begin "that process of healing which is so desperately needed in America."
Sad Turn of Events
US soldiers in Afghanistan burnt the bodies of dead Taliban and taunted their opponents about the corpses, in an act deeply offensive to Muslims and in breach of the Geneva conventions.
An investigation by SBS's Dateline program, to be aired tonight, filmed the burning of the bodies.
It also filmed a US Army psychological operations unit broadcasting a message boasting of the burnt corpses into a village believed to be harbouring Taliban.
VPAgnew -
On October 10, 1973, Agnew became the second Vice President to resign the office. Unlike John C. Calhoun, who resigned to take a seat in the Senate, Agnew resigned and then pled nolo contendere (no contest) to a criminal charge of tax evasion, part of a scheme where he allegedly accepted $29,500 in bribes during his tenure as governor of Maryland. Agnew was fined $10,000 and put on three years' probation. He was later disbarred by the State of Maryland. His resignation triggered the first use of the 25th amendment, as the vacancy prompted the appointment and confirmation of Gerald R. Ford as his successor. It remains one of only two times that the amendment has been employed to fill a Vice Presidential vacancy. The other time was when Ford chose Nelson Rockefeller to succeed him as Vice President. Ford hadn't been Nixon's first choice, however. Nixon's top three choices were Texas Governor John Connally, New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller and California Governor Ronald Reagan. Nixon thought Connally was too unpopular, and Rockefeller and Reagan unlikely to be confirmed by both Houses of Congress.
ah - the good life of corrupt republicans! What amazes me is how this whole Plumgate is beginning to take on some of the Watergate stuff. I mean, for those of us who lived through Watergate, it starts off small and continues to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if this thing really did open up a can of stinky sardines...
Bush - Cheney - Rove - Libby and as what happened in the Watergate, you have to throw in Bolton. I said then and I'll say it again. I think the only reason why Bush appointed Bolton was because Bolton has something on Bush. Blackmail can also be a strong force in Washington - it's happened before - it'll happen again.
No - this thing is just starting - hold on kiddies - it's going to get interesting!
Did I scare everyone off? Hey Dawnelle - are you in the path of the next storm????
With the recent postings about Nixon and Agnew and resigning office - we all know that GW Bush and Cheney are too arrogant to even consider resigning.
Remember, about a year or so ago, Bush was the same guy who couldn't recall any errors in judgement he made to date while in office.
So, per these 2 clowns, all that has gone awry on their watch, is the fault of others.
Trish,
good point.
Bush said "I have no idea whether we'll find out who the leaker is -- partially because, in all due respect to your profession, you do a very good job of protecting the leakers." On October 8 2003
Kathy
we may very well be as they have the whole state in their cone. Fortunately the eye is tiny! We'll only leave if it looks inevitable by Fri.
My Mom is being seriously stubborn about going. Niki and I have decided we'll have to knock her out and throw her in the back of one of our cars with the cats! LOL
I think I will fill up tomorrow and get some water just incase.
percy - you might be right but I think but like Nixon - he hung in there until the 13th hour before he finally gave it up. I mean, it was real close before he was called on for impeachment. They were just hours away from impeaching the creep and he went on TV (at the very last minute) and made the annoucement that he was stepping down at noon the next day. Boy, I remember that just like it happened yesterday. People were so happy because he wasn't doing his job, the news night after night was all about the Watergate...
If Bush and Cheney, let's say, were found to be heavily involved in this CIA leak, don't think that for a minute that all hell would break out..it would... you'd have one hearing after another - on TV everyday...
They'd go down like a whore on a mattress....
Good grief Dawn - you take care of yourself and your mom too! That's nothing to mess around with and they're saying that this one is the biggest one ever!!!!
You keep us posted but - if you have to get out - do it...we'll be in touch as soon as you return..
Franken just reported that Fitzgerald has announced that he WILL NOT be issuing a report.
That can only mean INDICTMENTS are coming!!!
Dawn,
Don't play with Wilma, y'heah?!? It's those big sopping storms with the tiny eyes that make tornados. Got you and J and all my FL friends in my prayers.
---------------------------------
If there are folks in NC lurking, I'd really appreciate if you'd sign this Equality NC petition for equal access to counsellors for students. The Repugs in the legislature are once again attempting to dehumanize and victimize GLBT people.
Those people just live to spew hatred, bigotry and pain. America is better than that and better than they'll ever hope to be, so let's not let the few spoil life for many.
Speaking of VP's taking over....did anyone else catch that 'citizens for Rice' commericial last night during Commander in Chief? I thought I was gonna puke!
Dawn,
Interesting article on the use of nuclear arms. the only thing I disagree with is that Israel will not listen to our assurances and will bomb Iran back into the stone ages. They did it once before and will probably do it again. I wouldnt' be surprised if we allow them to fly over Iraq.
Has anybody else thought about this -- that indicting Cheney could be the worst thing to happen to our election chances. Say Cheney gets indicted, he resigns, and Bush gets to handpick her heir apparent -- who would not be really challenged in the Rep. primary. Bush could do all kinds of nasty things like choose Condi, McCain, Colin Powell, any woman for that matter, a hispanic.
I thought for sure Cheney was going to resign prior to the last election (right about convention time) thus giving Bush the opportunity to choose somebody who could be nominated in 08.
Everytime Cheney goes in for a medical exam I cant help but think to myself that he is planning on leaving, giving Bush this great opportunity.
Hello...I posted this yesterday to another forum on this site and wanted to chime in on this discussion as well.
I'd like to nominate Energy at the top of any list for policy/pundicity as I think all other "core Democrat values" can fall in place under a sound domestic and foreign energy policy.
Specifically, the current Republican administration's collaberation with Big Oil/Nat Gas gives them the illusion of authority on the most pressing national security issue: namely where to get more energy to meet our growing demand.
The rug can be pulled out from under this falacy by promoting U.S. grown alternative fuels and plug-in diesel-hybrid vehicles (light rail, busses and passenger cars).
First, it must be made clear to Americans that the diesel engine is the most efficient and only multi-fuel engine on the mass market today.
Second, biodiesel needs to be acknowledged as the only alternative, cleaner burning fuel on the market that provides a net energy gain (due to photosynthesis of solar energy).
The current limitation on biodiesel is its negligable availability. Currently most biodiesel is derived from soy or rape/canola with even less from waste oil sources. Fuel producers competing with food producers for the same commodity is a waste of resources.
The answer to the oil source issue is...algae. Tied to agricultural and urban wastewater treatment facilities, closed system algae ponds are proven to generate the necessary feedstock oil (and the leftover mush is value-added cattle feed or fertilzer. Mustard seeds are also high in oil and their mush is value-added, natural pesticide.)
And finally, the plug-in hybrid with a multi-fuel capable diesel engine will allow Americans to tap into the biofuel market as it comes online in their area.
If Democrats can provide a clear, positive method for delivering Americans the energy they need to commute and power their small businesses and homes, then all other "litmus test" issues won't matter to the center-middle voters.
Biodiesel is pro-farmer, pro-business, pro-family, and pro-American.
(And, since all this policy would be inherently pro-enviroment it wouldn't need to be touted and therefore not trigger the knee-jerk anti-enviro faction.)
Will do Kathy!
We won't be bringing this computer if we flee so I'll be able to chat as long as the weather permits. Niki's puter is new and rarely used so I'll insist she bring it. (then I'll find a way to get back here, no doubt)
Hopefully it will burn out long enough to cross over Florida as a One or even Cat Two (as we face North and are on the 2nd floor and could survive it I'm sure) any way, THANKS again!
I am used to traveling light.
I just heard this on Frankes:
Individuals familiar with Fitzgerald’s case tell RAW STORY that John Hannah, a senior national security aide on loan to Vice President Dick Cheney from the offices of then-Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs, John Bolton, was named as a target of Fitzgerald’s probe. They say he was told in recent weeks that he could face imminent indictment for his role in leaking Plame-Wilson’s name to reporters unless he cooperated with the investigation.
Others close to the probe say that if Hannah is cooperating with the special prosecutor then he was likely going to be charged as a co-conspirator and may have cut a deal.
LINK
Kathy/Dawn and everyone else,
Just how fast can a hurricane turn on its axis? I don't understand why this one is suppose to turn back toward the left and hit Florida. You'd think it would head out into open water in the Gulf.
Imagine what it would have been like this year if we didn't have modern communications and people had been surprised by all these terrible storms this season. Imagine how much worse FEMA would have reacted?
What is Bush going to do now that we have another Category 5 heading toward the US? Will he issue a warning and then he fly to Canada to hold a Social Security reform town hall meeting since no one believes him in this country any more -- between mountain bike trips?
Dawn, don't take any chances. We've seen what the federal response will be. Get out as soon as it's clear where this thing is heading.
Frostie, Cheney will never resign. He is worse than Nixon when it comes to admitting defeat. He'll go down with the ship and thumb his nose at us as he descends into the depths.
Sandy
you may be right but if I was Mr. Rove, that is what I would be trying to get accomplished --that and staying out of jail.
If Cheney Resigns . . .
I don't agree with Frostie's posting above, re: the scenario if Cheney resigns and Bush picks a replacement VP.
If Cheney resigns, which will not happen except for medical reasons, then if Bush hand-picks someone to replace Cheney, and then that new person is the next GOP candidate for President in 2008, I think it would be easier for the Democratic candidate to run against someone who would then be closely associated with this President who has made so many blunders and whose job approval rating is now down to 39%.
Unlike Frostie, my concern would be if the next GOP presidential candidate is independent (at least on the surface) of the Bush administration. Then, he or she would not necessarily take responsibility for the Iraq war, for the energy crisis, for the FEMA mishandling, etc.
I would love to have someone like Condi run in 2008 - she has made so many documented blunders, and she is so closely attached at the hip to Bush, that in my opinion, she would lose BIG in 2008.
What is Bush going to do now that we have another Category 5 heading toward the US? Will he issue a warning and then he fly to Canada to hold a Social Security reform town hall meeting since no one believes him in this country any more -- between mountain bike trips?
Posted by SandyH on October 19, 2005 at 12:37 PM
Sandy--Every resource at the federal government's disposal will be used in Florida, like he was for Texas--Republican voting states.
I can hear Bush strumming his guitar on deck as the Don't Mess With Texas goes belly up...Chenny elbowing the women and children to get in the lifeboats first.
Boy, am I witchy today. Later.
Sandy that is head EAST! LOL
They are tracking some upper level winds that supposedly are moving at a pretty fast clip so they think it will not only turn but help to speed it up on its way across the state.
Some of us think it will sheer off the top of the Cane and knock it in the head downgrading it to a one or two before it turns..... (that does happen too)
we'll see. Everyone is OVER preparing these days ya know?
Percy
What if he picks somebody like McCain (who is independent from Bush)?
I only threw out Condi's name out there because she seems to be getting a lot of press recently. That, and she takes 45 to 50 percent of the black vote with her.
Cheney won't resign - he'll go down with Bush...even if he was to resign, the republicans are so bumed out right now I doubt if they could muster up enough votes for a unified vote.
Like I said - keep an eye on Bolton - he's at the center of all of this....
Posted by Frostie94 on October 19, 2005 at 12:49 PM
doubt it
Frostie - what makes you think that blacks back Rice? If you look at the recent polls, they don't trust or like her either. One thing about being black - they don't always follow the leader.
Kathy
I based my opinion on the fact that congressional black leaders (across the board), and other black officials across the board have all stated that if she runs, she will get anywhere between 45 and 75 percent of the vote.
People may disagree with her but her life story is quite compelling and is a great rags to riches story.
I have yet to hear one pundit or black leader say that she wont take black votes away from our party. As you know, without our historic 90 percent black support, we would be in serious trouble. With respect to polls, polls are like (fill in the blank) everyone's got one. The only poll that really matters is the one come election day.
Frostie
Mccain is independant from Bush? So was that his twin brother that campaigned for Bush in 2004? Is Mccain aware that there was an imposter posing as him in 2004 that said he agreed with the Bush travesty of a foreign policy? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on ME. Mccain once was a viable candidate ironically enough it will be his campaigning for BUSH in 2004 that will prove his undoing.
Frostie
black or white if she was the candidate we'd bury her with the "shopping while New Orleans floods" story or the "mushroom cloud" story
all the lies and mishaps she's totally in the middle of it - she won't survive after the hailstorm of bad press we'd throw at her. I'd give up dinner all week to help pay for those commercials.
As I think MILLIONS of Democrats would....
RICE is the EVIL MOUTHPIECE
African Americans aren't just gonna vote for Rice because of her skin color. Link something Frostie because I think your pulling a "Bush administration" and mis-stating what was said.
sheeeet
local fema just said from I-4 South needs to be ready to evacuate
I am 60 miles south (or so) of I-4 (in Tampa)
LOL maybe we'll just drive up to my Aunts in Pinellas - crazy!
Tomorrow will be a better day to tell......
I knew I was opening my mouth too soon when I bragged about us never getting hit in over 30 yrs. drat.
Blacklikeme,
How'd your son like to get a penpal? I have a thirteen year old son who lives to make friends. It's difficult sometimes because at his age they think they know enough but really what they know is enough to get in trouble. It's hard sometimes finding balance between giving him some leg room to explore who he is and protecting him from making a mistake that could impact his future.
Posted by CBwaltz on October 19, 2005 at 10:01 AM
Good morning all-d'oh-afternoon,
CBwaltz,
My son is 8 and does not write that much, but maybe a penpal would help him. Might be a good idea!!
Just a quick note about Jeb hawking money for Wilma. It will be interesting how much and how quickly brother Jeb gets Fed response; NOLA is watching.
And, another interesting tidbit just popped into my brain and I msay as well share it. Itis interesting to think ofthe S&L problemsof the late 1980's. Specifically, the Colorado Thrift that Neil Bush was employed and went under to the tune of $75 - $80 Billion. GHW quickly negotiated a s&l bailout through congress and signed it into law, then almost nothing was heard of this sons misdeeds either. And these people, these hypocrits talk about the Kennedy's?
OMG
Gotta run, get ready for work!! Keep the iron in the fire :-)
CB
The voters will not care that McCain campaigned for Bush. Most voters are smart enough to realize that candidates who dont win the nomination support the winner. For example, Kerry, Dean, etc all trashed each other on a regular basis. However, after Kerry won the nomination, the other candidates actively campaigned for him. That doesn't mean that they are not independent.
John McCain has been a thorn in Bush's side on lots of issues and has been very outspoken with the press. I strongly believe that most people would look favorably on McCain being nominated to serve as VP.
With respect to Condi shopping, the Republicans tried that approach with Clinton shutting down the airport just so he could get a haircut. It didn't work then and it wont work now.
I haven't had a chance to read Dick Morris's book yet but I think he makes the same conclusion. If she can somehow get nominated, we dont have enough arrows in our quiver to kill her.
Tell you what, if she get nominated and your prediction is right, I will buy you dinner for one week (to make up the money you spent on commercials). If your prediction is wrong, you have to fast for another week and then take out ads in the local paper stating that I was right and you were wrong.
Frostie
Frostie
no offense but why would that be an enticing bet?
maybe if you say buy dinner with Wes Clark or something. heh.
Posted by Frostie94 on October 19, 2005 at 01:14 PM
You're REALLY delusional if you think that this country is ready to elect a black woman.
The only time I will be afraid is if by some BIZARRO twist of Life - Condi ends up as Pug candidate against Hillary!
Then she COULD lose. But I can't ever imagine MOST men wanting that kind of choice.
The voters I know will. I'm planning on copying this little aticle. I'll hand it out to everyone I know.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2004/aug/11/bush_mocks_kerry/
Mccain lost his chance at bipartisanship. He blew it big time in 2004.
Good Afternoon Folks!
Dawn, when is this thing supposed to touch down in Florida? Don't cut it too close gf! I'm worried about you. Anyone heard from J lately?
Dick Cheney's Covert Action
I have yet to hear one pundit or black leader say that she wont take black votes away from our party. Posted by Frostie94 on October 19, 2005 at 12:59 PM
And I have yet to hear one pundit or black leader say that she WILL take black voted away from our party. Even Powell (before he utterly disgraced himself as a weak coward) was being flailed by Harry Belafonte and others as NOT representing black views...Rice has no chance in hell of winning a majority of black votes...Rice and Powell ARE NO Johnnie Cochran or Vernon Jordan (all rich, but ABSOLUTELY different).
I am sick of your sneaky ways of pretending to present both sides of an arguement...GET REAL!!!
I think that we will have a Democrat win in 2008 because the American people will be so disgusted with the lying and the inability of the GOP to lead myself. Watching them try to balance the budget is like watching a clown car at the circus.
Trish,
It's the "Bush administration" technique. Put something out there even if it is a misleading and twisted statement. I'd have thought that a Democrat would know better. It's why I asked him to link the statement.
Black like me I have an 8 and a 6 year old boys as well. It might be cool for all the boys to correspond. They could learn a little about another place and practice their writing skills. We're in Virginia, what part of the country are you in?
Trish
what the hell are you talking about? The argument I am making was all over the news several weeks ago because Dick Morris was on evey talk show peddling his book. During one of the shows he was one (cant remember which one), the producer posted several quotes from prominent black leaders across the country and they all agreed that Condi takes votes away from us. I am sorry if that scares you because it scares me.
I would also appreciate it if you would please identify how I am being sneaky. I admit, I look at both sides of every issue and give credit where credit is due, because the only way you can really know your position is to know the other sides position. Its apparent that you only look at one side of every argument.
With respect to this country being ready to elect a black woman to office, stranger things have happened. Do I think that it will happen, No!! (Which is something I have repeatedly stated) but if it does, we might have a big problem on our hands.
I am sorry if my hypotheticals irriate you. But trust me, every national democratic strategist in the country is already preparing contingency plans just in case something like this happens.
Frostie
Okay, Dunkling, here you go. First, you're right when you say our values document shouldn't be a novel. Yesterday I pointed out there is a difference between values and issues. Issues are campaign specific and result in individual pieces of legislation. Abortion, global warming, tax cuts, and housing costs are all issues. I think bio-diesel is a great issue.
Values form our core ideology and don't change from election to election. Values are the basis from which we derive our stand on issues. We need to state our values and present them in contrast to Republican values. We also need to compose a platform of issues so people will know what we will do when we take back The Hill.
The values list should be short and simple. My proposal for our values list includes:
Freedom
Equality
Economic Opportunity
Global Democracy
There's room for others and these aren't carved in stone. That's what these blogs are for. There's also debate room over what these words actually mean. For instance, I disagree strongly with Republicans when they use the word "freedom".
she WILL take black votes away from our party.
Posted by Trish on October 19, 2005 at 01:39 PM
sorry about reposting...just realized how this read and didn't want any misconceptions:
And I have yet to hear one pundit or black leader say that she WILL take black voted away from our party.
later good folks...
Jen
This weekend. Tomorrow we will decide whether we will head north or south or stay and fill up the tub for water. I or II head on we can survive. Head on is a small area thankfully but very hard to judge exactly where.
This one is wobbling around like some drunken sailor who the heck knows for sure right now! Have you seen the tracking of it? Crazy!
Nana just left to fill up the tank and pick up soda. Good idea!
Here it comes...
Sparked by today's Washington Post story that suggests Vice President Cheney's office is involved in the Plame-CIA spy link investigation, government officials and advisers passed around rumors that the vice president might step aside and that President Bush would elevate Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
US NEWS & WORLD REPORT
imo, don't reinvent the wheel. There's a great platform, ideology, and message out there that already exists and is pretty kick-ass:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Why don't we just, you know, follow this?
jinxed... :)
And I have yet to hear one pundit or black leader say that she WILL take black votes away from our party.
Trish
I knew what you meant and agree about America not being ready to elect even a WOMAN. If she were black it would only make the vote less I would think.
Especially after witnessing that stupid Nazi rally!!! Only reminding me just how many BIGOTS and Racists still exist around here.
ok dawnelle, just be careful! sounds like you're on top of things, that's a relief.
For something that "was all over the news" Frostie it appears to be difficult to find when using a search engine. HMMMMMMMMM
86% of those polled Sunday said they'd vote for a woman if she was the right person for the job. - it was on Jerry Springer - don't know the source.
Emily's List also did research on women candidates in the past 12-15 years and they found: women are just as likely as men to be elected when running; people who were asked said gender was significantly far down on their list of reasons voting for/against women. Indeed studies have shown a complete lack of gender bias in terms of vote totals.
I found this surprising. Actually, I found this shocking!
Karen, we do follow the preamble. The problem is the Republicans also clain to follow it, though they don't. At least not now.
The Republicans have also sold America we are a party without values. We have values, but they are different from the stated Republican values.
I also like the privacy value. When the government is sticking its nose into our personal business they aren't taking care of the country.
Condi doesn't even beat Hillary in polls posted at a freeper site.
During one of the shows he was one (cant remember which one), the producer posted several quotes from prominent black leaders across the country and they all agreed that Condi takes votes away from us. I am sorry if that scares you because it scares me. Posted by Frostie94 on October 19, 2005 at 01:41 PM
First of all Dick Morris is nobody to be quoted...he talks to peddle his so-called tell all books. And which "prominent black leaders" are you talking about specifically??? The right-wing religious nuts who were conned into arm-wrestling thier clueless congregations with promises of cash from the so-called faith-based crap organizations???? Trust me...those delusional folks who forget where they come from DO NOT represent the majority of blacks and if they did, Katrina brought reality into focus REAL QUICK!!!
If Colin Powell had run for President in 2006, 60%+ of the population polled in early 2006 would have voted for him. Again, sorry, heard it on Springer - don't know the source.
I'm thinking the race/gender thing is less important than it is played up to be, especially once they've gotten through the initial stages of a campaign.
Again, just as shocked to learn this as anybody.
I wouldn't worry about Rice, guys. She's damaged goods. The media focuses on national figres they already know. The next Republican nominee will be a governor. Probably Mike Huckabee.
Just stopping in real quick to tell Dawnelle to get the heck out of FLorida girlfriend!! This one will probably come is as at least a 3, so please don't take any chances. If you need a free place to stay and feel like visiting Illinois you are more than welcome to come here and stay as long as you want with your family, I have the room.
Hope everyone is having a good day, sorry I can't stay.
Doing a drive-by (like Paige just did) to wish Dawnelle and her family (and everyone else online who is in Florida) the best of luck.
Actually, Paige said it best: Get the heck out of Florida girlfriend!!
I see Karen is here too, click this link and scroll down for a great re-do on the "Mighty Casey" poem, substitute Pujols of course!! :-)
Hope all our South buddies are doing ok!
Just a fly by...read the news about Condi. We'll see, I guess.
Todays Picture
CB, Trish...I posted a couple of days ago that Frostie is a Republican and a Fraud. He uses primitive psychology to try to sublimate ideas. I have posted this many times...he just keeps on proving it...Shut up, Frostie
Dawnelle,
You don't need to be afraid of giving up dinner to pay for ads against Rice. All we have to do is run ads, showing the Lies she told sitting on those Sunday shows, from day one, about WMDS, about AlQaeda link, about 9/11 link, and then saying all Lies !
PamB has a good point.
Just reply her testimony in the 9/11 hearings...Paraphrasing here:
I think, I'm not to sure, though, that the title of that document was...oh...something about someone wanting to attack something....
Trish
I agree that Dick Morris is peddling his book. With that said, he was Karl Rove before Karl Rove was. The Clinton's trusted him and he always came through for them.
With respect to which black leaders, I cant remember which ones were quoted. I do remember that they were prominent and non-republican. I am almost tempted to go buy the damn book just to find out.
Karen
I agree with you -- gender will not play that much of an issue. Voters will look at the individual candidates and then make the choice.
I would also appreciate it if you would please identify how I am being sneaky. I admit, I look at both sides of every issue and give credit where credit is due, because the only way you can really know your position is to know the other sides position. Its apparent that you only look at one side of every argument
You are so full of crap ! If it wasn't for Negative posts, you wouldn't have any posts at ALL.
This from a guy who posted on 10/16th, 12:28AM in the night,
This party wants to take away his guns, wants to Ban god in public, and wants Gays to Marry!
I skip your ridiculous posts and recommend every one else just skip him too.
If this isn't a troll, it is the Wrongest person I ever heard on here in Two years!!!!! Every thing he posts is Wrong!
letshelpdean,
Let's try to stay away from calling people ugly names like the R word (since nowadays it means your a person that launders money, insider trades, or uses national security information for your own personal gain:).
i'm thinking, larry, after observing the interactions with frostie that he likes to control the conversation here and that the best approach to shut him up is to ignore him. apparently he is too subtle for the moderators to pick off so unless you or whoever actually likes arguing with him, i'd say pretend he's not here. just my opinion, i know how hard it is to ignore when someone gets under your skin. some of them just thrive on the attention, positive or negative.
CV - ok, I see your point. Here's what I learned about campaigning at an Emily's List training:
Create a message, stick to it, say it over and over again (it's only when you get absolutely sick of it that the public actually starts to listen).
What is your message: 1) the defining principle of your campaign; 2) contrasts you with your opponent; 3) it will drive all aspects of your campaign (ie - keep it broad enough to be applicable to a lot of detailed issues); 4) don't confuse message with slogan. No more than 3 short sentences, easily memorized, easily repeated.
Governor Granholm created a message when she was campaigning based on polls that showed people didn't think she would be a strong leader, based in response to the Enron scandal, and during a time of economic recession and post-9/11 fear, as well as growing irritation of "big government" spending:
"In Michigan I'll lead, I'll protect our families and educate our kids, I'll hold corporations accountable and run a government that's lean but not mean."
It's an awesome message. She kept to it. She said it over and over. She won.
Let's do that. The preamble has some pretty good messages - that's all I'm saying.
haha! jinx, looks like we're all on the same wavelength.
now for something for the ladies (or the inclined gents)
interview with Viggo Mortensen and since there are no photos accompanying the interview, look here
thanks to LL for the link!
Paige - GO CARDS!! Thanks for the poem - yeah, fits to a tee. I cried Monday night, I admit it...
ok, bbl again
Let's take the time to list other hopefuls besides Hillary. She doesn't even get a consensus here, let alone have a shot with the Rethugs. I've heard Mark Warner kicked around as a name. Who else do we like? (I still like Feingold :))
the new autothread will not be at every 250 posts, it will be three times a day. but no this one ain't it apparently.
Hi Jen, I've been lurking and ignoring him...just burns me to see people actually respond honestly to his less than clever crap. Hope he is as obvious to everyone as he is to me.
i am sorry i like Gore, and i already know he's a has-been blahblahblah but i don't care.
Yeah, like Bush and Rove weren't in on this together, along with Cheney and Libby !
As special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald nears a decision, perhaps as early as today, on whether to issue indictments in his two-year probe, Bush has already circled the wagons around Rove, whose departure would be a grievous blow to an already shell-shocked White House staff and a President in deep political trouble.
Asked if he believed indictments were forthcoming, a key Bush official said he did not know, then added: "I'm very concerned it could go very, very badly."
"Karl is fighting for his life," the official added, "but anything he did was done to help George W. Bush. The President knows that and appreciates that."
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/v-pfriendly/story/357107p-304312c.html
Jen, I agree about Al Gore. Ok, gotta get OFF THIS COMPUTER...
i know, larry, i should have just said that post was to whomever. i think most people do see through! how ya been, btw? still kicking butt on the tennis court?
Posted by Karen on October 19, 2005 at 01:52 PM
Karen, I heard that on Springer too, but the second part of that study said that a majority of those 86% said they doubt that their friends or neighbors would vote for a woman.
This is a way of being "Politically Correct", by
projecting ones own feelings onto others, so one can take the high road.
bye Karen! darn!
I love this that Viggo says in the above interview:
Are you anti-Bush, as the pundits say?
No, I'm not anti-Bush; I'm anti-Bush behavior. In other words, I'm against cheating, greed, cruelty, racism, imperialism, religious fundamentalism, treason, and the seemingly limitless capacity for hypocrisy shown by Bush and his Administration.
Sweet! I think we should all memorize this when we get accused of Bush Bashing.
Jen - I plan on voting for Gore every opportunity I get.
I know Dawnelle is going to give Clark. Here's something different I'd like to do though. In addition to naming the candidate How about listing 3 major reasons you're candidate would be good for America and give examples of why you know this.
For example I might list that Feingold is my candidate because he's not afraid to oppose the majority and stand on his principles. He was the lone vote against the Patriot Act. He also believes in a balanced budget and has sup[ported PAYGO. I also believe that he is less likely to be under a corporate thumb but understands the concerns of small businesses. He voted NO to the bankruptcy bill but has gotten Kudos from the SBA in Wisconsin. Someone else's turn.
If it squawks like a Pug and talks like a Pug and walks like a Pug -- it ain't a Democrat. Dems in here are very accepting for the most part, but I can smell B.S. a mile away -- just avoid the trollbait.
To everybody,
I made a promise two days ago to stop taking up so much thread space defending myself. My posts speak for themselves. The only time I attack (get negative) somebody is if they attack me first.
I have interacted with several people today and until now, hadn't uttered one negative comment. I have disagreed with several comments but I did not get negative. CB, Confessor (and others)can attest to that.
I am sorry that Pam, letshelpdean, and one other individual dislike me. If they want to ingore me fine. I am not a troll spy sent her to stir up trouble. Hell, my first post today was a hypothetical thrown out to everybody. My next dealt with a possible Republican plan involving replacing Cheney.
With respect to dominating the blog, if you dont like what I post, dont respond (that is how a blog works -- you pick and choose when to respond). I have responded more today because I have had more free time today.
Frostie
Jen give us reasons you like Gore.
Selling points that could be used on voters, so to speak.
Frostie,
Who's your pick and their three selling points?
exactly DPD, who's going to admit that they have a problem voting for a woman or an ethnic minority? but when they get in that voting booth, are they going with their better nature? or their prejudices?
Jen/PamB, I agree. I have since reread some of his posts and he does sound like a repeat troll. Do you guys remember the creep that would come in here and spew his Libertarian crao in here. Sometimes I think he's back..don't you guys think so?
ummm Al Gore, yes that's doable.....
I've heard alot of Gore supporters -tell me why other than he was under Clinton though. He's gonna have to stand on his record.(Not saying that he isn't intelligent or capable just let me know HOW I can convince others of it)
anybody watch C-Span this morning, the House had those 1 minute speechs they could get up and give!
Looks like the Republicans got together and decided to do their's on Democrats want to Spend more money right now. "And where do you think that money is going to come from, folks?" "Yup, they want to raise taxes"
I could not BELIEVE the outrageousness of their statements, when Their President has outspent Clinton's 8 years, in his first Four !!!
These Repugs think no one pays attention or knows the facts !!
Jen, Oh, yeah, Viggo is WAY a sexehthang. Thanks for the treat :-)
Karen, that's perfect... "lean but not mean". The current administration's meanness, pettiness and vindictiveness have been more than amply demonstrated. They're not happy unless they're screwing the arse off everyone else. I, being part of "everyone else" am sick unto death of it.
Three reasons why I would support Gore:
1. He was part of the "balance the budget" gang.
2. He understands that we have to get along with the rest of the world.
3. He speaks in complete sentences.
the only way you can really know your position is to know the other sides position.
???? What does my position have to do with your position? That is a totally bizzare way to take a 'position'. Unless you are a phony.
Sorry Jen, just couldn't resist;)
YIKES
I walk away to start packing (finished for now) and I come back and I'm lost again.
Pam - who the hell thinks you don't look at all sides? You are one of the few people I totally trust on here.
I just am not paying attention today too much other crapola goin on. and
{{Paige}} if I run out of family on the way UP I'll let you know!! :-) We have Atlanta first then NC then I think we'd head to Boston. I'd rather go there first but they may get the tail end of this as well they're saying by next week.
Yikes!! no worries! I'm ready for whatever. Picking up my meds tomorrow so I'll have extra. Got it under cover. Thanks everyone.
still catching up
Pam
I said it earlier, watching the GOP try to balance the budget is like watching a clown car. I hear that new proposals include a modification on the mortgage deduction, making the money you pay into tax care taxable, and doing away with the deduction for state and local taxes.(They just lost ANY chance for California or New York if this is true.)I'm sure middle America will just LOVE these great ideas.
Gore because
He's intelligent.
He understands what balancing a budget entails.
He is pro-education. (Seen it with my own eyes, but that's another story.)
He is for a smaller government.
He is eco-friendly. (And Mother Earth is really pissed off right now.)
There's more but that's my post for right now.
Hey {{{Dawn}}}
Good luck to you. Hopefully, this will peter out to tropical storm, or head in another direction. Stay safe in any case..
Dawnelle - I'll add my name to that list too, I have a few extra rooms and lots of food in the freezer...
If you have pets - don't forget them...so many were lost in NO.
Posted by CBwaltz on October 19, 2005 at 02:23 PM
Pres pick for 08?
B. Obama/two reasons
1. He is a smart
2. Articulate - Good communicator. Able to make a connection with those living in the red states (I hate using color coded terms) that previous Dem Pres candidate were unable to do. Just look at his convention speech/various interviews.
3. He seems to have the charisma and is able to articulate the messages in way that will not only unite the Dems, but America as well.
And no, I do not by the "he does not have enough experience crap".
CB
It looks like I now owe you two lists (the ginsburg list) and who I would support and why.
Real quick yes or no list:
Hillary: no.
Gore: maybe.
Kerry: no
Bayh: strong maybe.
Feingold: strong maybe.
frostie
Christine,
How this administration is Ever going to pay for Katrina, Iraq, etc, on top of their other brilliant ideas like the Medicare bill, etc, is just mind boggling.
These are BILLIONS of dollars we are talking about. The debt is alredy at it's highest in history and they are adding more to it every day.
I wish we could get those counters going again in Times Square and other parts of the country, showing how the Debt is adding up every second. What a visual tool that was.
Clark
1) A history of serving his nation with loyalty and dedication and LITTLE pay (compared to say CEO of Halliburton)
2) Intellect (Rhodes Scholar)
3) G.R.A.V.I.T.A.S. (loved by many nations for being a strong fair leader)
I could go on but you only said 3
hehe
one last post before I head off to my hearing
would somebody please explain The Art of War or The Prince to letshelpdean and why it is important to know your foe as well as you know yourself
Frostie
main reason for Gore
I TRUST HIM
among the other reasons casey and others listed!
Gore would be a winner.......I would vote for him (again)
Edwards would be a winner....He knows how to speak and smile at the same time without being a phony. Great ideas obout what is needed to get country going in the direction that will benefit the PEOPLE. Would be helped by Clark as VP.
All other Democrats better than any R*******
OK, jumping back in again and then off to lab.
My pick for 08 Gore/Obama, for all of the reasons others have stated above.
frostie, larry doesn't need anyone to explain anything to him. he's twice your age and three times you in wisdom and experience. follow your own advice and ignore him if you don't like what he says!
Complete sentences might be a difficult sell Kathy :) Can't you think of anything else? I also think linking him in as part of a "gang" kind of makes him appear weak. I do like though that you were willing to give me reasons. One of the reasons I liked him was because he proposed the "lockbox" for Social Security. I wonder if that money had been placed in a "lockbox" as he suggested how many more years would have been added to the estimates on SSI solvency.
I really think putting all our eggs in one basket with Hillary is dangerous. I think we need to have alternates and we should be introducing them to America NOW.
Dawnelle, I'll send you my phone and address in case you need it, you don't have to ask just drive sistah. {{mwah}}
Gore/Obama
bbl again...
Posted by CaseyInTN on October 19, 2005 at 02:28 PM
I like Gore. If he ran again I would most likely vote for him. But I do not see him getting the southern votes. Do any of you see any of those candidates catching the southern votes?
And yes, I know Obama is not going to run, but it would be nice.
That has nothing to do with "position" Frostie. Behavior and motivation maybe...
Paige (I *love* that name) -
When I read your post about 08 Gore/Obama, I got a little excited. (Not in that way...) That would be an awesome ticket. Man, I could really rally around that particular ticket.
In addition to Hank's post for Obama
#4 - He's passionate about his country.
Yep Frostie :) I'm crackin the whip.
You really only need one list and the other thing is a candidate and the reasons why(not just a blanket NO or YES please; candidates need to know where they are strong and connect with folks)
Frostie
don't be smug
MOST of us here KNOW our enemy we don't need you defending them or trying to instruct US on anything.
I appreciate you think you are so superior to most of us but you'd be wrong.
Peace and why not go bug the PUGS with their strategy! See if you are right? Then come back here and report to us.
Posted by CBwaltz on October 19, 2005 at 02:35 PM
As we get closer to election time for 08 more dem candidates will pop up. I think it is premature to think that the dems have put all their eggs in one (Hillary) basket. I know were all itching to get the current idiot and chief out of office, but just wait, watch and see what comes about before primary season kicks off. There is still a lot of time.
letshelpdean
Why don't you like him? If you don't mind my asking.
Would love to see Gore/Edwards
To be honest I can see a big smear compaign with Obama's name.
Kerry.
1. He has the "I told you so" thing already built in, and the Shitheads for Bush have all been discredited.
2. He "lost" by the slimmest margin in History, and most of the Southern States are PO'd at the Pugs.
3. He understands Foreign Policy.
Kerry / Richardson
(Hillary as Sec of Health & Human Services, Gore as Sec of Interior, )
If not, Kerry should be Sec of State.
CB - ah that was more of a tongue in cheek reply to you. Of course Gore has many points that would make him an ideal canidate again.
I'm not sold on Hilliary and I don't want Kerry to run again.
I'm not too sure about Byah either. Although I must say that when he was the gov here in Indiana, he did run a tight ship. When he stepped down, he left the State of Indiana like Clinton left the White House. we had a balanced budget with money to spare. It all went away a few months later.
Hank,
I want us to practice though. Hillary is the only name being thrown around as a frontrunner. She loses against all the GOP hardhitters right now except for Condi. I like hearing about Gore. I'd like to hear specifics though examples of where I can cite his intelligence(other than he got good grades in school. I did too but I probably wouldn't be a good Pres.)
Of all the candidates feeling the waters right now, I am not crazy about any of their chances. (Hillary, Clinton, Bayh, Edwards, Biden)
If Gore could be persuaded, I would work hard for him. I like Richardson a lot. The man oozes Sincerety and honesty.
Too early for Obama, but his day will come.
I would like to see Clark in a VP or Sec. of State or Sec. of Defense position.
Another politician with Honesty behind him.
My $.02:
John F. Kerry
1. He understands the courage and sacrifice needed to engage another country in a war;
2. He is a natural diplomat;
3. He understands that "Hesitancy in judgment is the only true mark of the thinker". (Dagobert D. Runes)
The net gets wider and wider:
Sununu's Indian Backers
Concord Monitor
Why would the Choctaw tribe of Mississippi contribute money to help John Sununu get elected to the U.S. Senate from New Hampshire in 2002? Probably for the same reason that the Agua Caliente tribe of California did. Because Washington superlobbyist Jack Abramoff told them to. That's not proven yet, but it's the only explanation that makes sense. We doubt the Indians were inspired by Sununu's stance on, say, Social Security reform.
The New Hampshire Democratic Party is now making hay out of the fact that state Republicans received $5,000 checks from each of the two tribes and a third $5,000 donation from Americans for a Republican Majority, the political action committee of then House Majority Leader Tom DeLay. All of that money flowed into party coffers just days before a telemarketing firm hired by the Republicans jammed phone banks set up to get out the vote for Jeanne Shaheen, Sununu's opponent. Those three checks just about covered the $15,500 cost of hiring the telemarketing firm.
Clark Sec of Defense.
See? We almost have the whole Cabinet picked.
Thought this tid-bit from Democratic Underground was interesting and all here would enjoy it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/
Folks, We're Witnessing Nuclear War In The White House
Posted by writes2000
Added to homepage Wed Oct 19th 2005, 12:45 PM ET
I'm stunned. A few weeks ago, there were reports that there was a war brewing in the White House between Karl Rove and Andrew Card. Then we heard that there was a war between Rove's team and the Cheney folks. I dismissed both as an exaggeration.
The past few days have proven me wrong.
Think about what's been leaked to the press.
"Cheney is a focus of the prosecutor."
"Libby never admitted to a June 23rd meeting with Miller."
"Cheney was IN meetings of the WHIG and discussed Wilson there."
"Cheney aide #1 has flipped."
"Cheney aide #2 has flipped." (today)
These leaks are attacks. They are blows against Cheney and his staff. While it is possible that they are coming from Fitzgerald, Fitz is known for not leaking. No, these leaks are coming from somewhere else. And who else could know these things except someone else in the White House?
Today's leak was a counter-attack. It was retribution.
Today's "Bush Whacked Rove" article doesn't protect Bush. The headline may look that way but it's really a political nuclear time bomb aimed directly at King George.
It absolutely implies that he lied to the American people.
It suggests that he has aided in obstruction of justice.
It implicates him in acts of political revenge.
And it ties him to the entire conspiracy.
Just look at the part where the article claims that a previous leak was a LIE designed to protect the President! This is an attack!
Fitzgerald has all of them by the balls. Each day, he applies more pressure by sending out details that threaten them.
"An announcement will be made in D.C."
"He has no plans to file a report."
And each day more damning info comes out that implicates someone else higher up on the food chain. Today, President Bush has been significantly implicated in this crime.
It's about to get even more bloody.
LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT
Off to the doctors, thought it was friday, but it is today...
Kathy I knew you were joshing me. That's why I put the smiley there. I just think we need to start selling "our" folks to the American people. Branding takes time. I guess I'll research Byah. He sounds like a good candidate. Anybody know the percentage of Dem governors that were able to balance their budgets? It'd be interesting to weigh against the GOP states. Since the GOP is claiming we are not as fiscally responsible and all.
Posted by Denise on October 19, 2005 at 02:45 PM
I know what you mean, but Gore can be easily (perhaps even more so) than Obama. All the reps would have to do is to bring up the 2000 campaign and bring up all the unflattering mess of the Clinton legacy. Besides getting childish and saying that Obama's name rhymes with Osama, can anyone here come up with something negative about him? Hillary, Gore, Biden, Kerry, Edwards, Bayh, and Feingold all have some sort of political baggage. I am not to sure about Clark, but I don't know how well of a communicator the general is.
Sorry DPD
I don't agree with Kerry
or even Gore anymore (I just don't trust him to be strong enough he didn't defend himself when they stole it the first time, he's older now, thus physically weaker, less chance he'd defend himself any better now. Sorry cuz I do love him and Kerry but both just have an overall appearance of being weak. Not that I think they would be if they won. Just the campaign. Too much baggage.
Clark is the only one anyone mentioned with ANY military experience (except for Gore as a reporter) but jez don't you all think we need someone who's BEEN there to get us out???
Jez it's way to crystal clear to me. Plus he has no lobbyist trouble or religion trouble or SOUTH trouble..... hell Oklahoma loves him.
He's from Arkansas. He's no loser! He's even challenged the other side and I think he's invested some time into getting to know his FOX enemy. jmo.
We are mighty! We are the backbone of the Democratic party. Why shouldn't we decide what would be best for our party :)?
CB, I hate sneaky. He tries to control with suggestion. Use of Inuendo and dissembling facts. He is here to try to plant, sublimanaly, ideas from the Pug point sheet. Notice how often he says: "I agree with you". To bump people off balance. He is getting more bold and aggresive but still stays (or tries to stay) behind the line of open Pugness.) His air of 'superiority' is phony. That comes in the Repug troll handbook.
I just don't like being 'snookered'. Some Southerners would say 'shucked'.
I'll try to ignor him.
For the shallow voter factor in elections, I think some will be repulsed by a "President Huckabee" or a "President Obama", they just don't sound presidential. Shallow, yes, but so are many of the voters.
I really would love a President EVERYONE could learn to love!!
w/out reservations and preconcieved name tags
Clark is the only one anyone mentioned with ANY military experience (except for Gore as a reporter) but jez don't you all think we need someone who's BEEN there to get us out???
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 02:53 PM
Now I know you have alot on your mind, what with the hurricane coming and all, but aren't you forgetting someone???
Let's say Bush and Cheney are removed from office (not good enough for me, they need jail time). Who's not running the country, then? Is it Hastert?
Hank,
Every candidate was going to have political baggage. Even a governor will have baggage. The trick is to find folks with a small amount of baggage and has more good points than bad points.
For example Feingold's baggage is he has a lifetime score of 96/100 as a liberal(perception of the word liberal is not great0 He'd have a difficult time overcoming a "liberal' label if he tried to run from it.
CB - sorry I didn't see the smiley.
I like Richardson too. Who ever we decide to put up, they will have to be very good at Foreign Affairs. Bush has made us public enemy number one with most countries, it's going to take someone special to put us back together again.
Oh I almost had a heart attach - I thought I heard that special sound that they do when they cut in for a news bulletin...false alarm.
Hank: Unfortunately we are the same country that fell for "flip flopper"
If you don't like someone it is best to ignore them:).
You didn't answer my question on Feingold though? :(
If their name is the worst the GOP could do I'd be grateful.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 02:59 PM
1966 - 1978
I get it. You don't like him.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 02:59 PM
Kerry served in Vietnam for I think months as an officer in the Navy. He commanded a boat.. saved some lives.. won some awards.. (Bronze Star w/V and I think a Silver Star w/V as well.
It'd be nice if they did a highlight on a leader in the Democratic party daily.
Posted by CBwaltz on October 19, 2005 at 02:58 PM
CB you are right. I guess that is why I Obama is on my wish list for pres. Most important along with having the intellect is that he is a communicator. There are some good people on that list for dem presidential candidates, but none of them (in my opinion) can communicate and bring a message as clear as Obama can. Obama/Richardson or Clark. Just my two cents.
really that long? nope didn't know that.
I liked him, I voted for him, but I liked others better. He's a senator. Senators are wonderful, they debate and pass laws, etc right? But they don't govern.
I'd vote for Kerry again if he were the choice. I'd just like someone else this time. It's not that I don't like him. I can see some on here are uber loyal. That's fine. I'm that way about Clark.
No big deal. I really thought Kerry only served long enough to get shot at and then got out. I would have. 12 yrs??? Why didn't they make a bigger deal of it I wonder?
Posted by DeLLBerto on October 19, 2005 at 03:05 PM
It meant diddley-squat up against a man with a fake twang, drug and alcohol addiction and an inability to speak english above a third grade level. What does that say about the gullibility of the GP?
Is there anyone in a state with a Democratic who likes their governor? Someone from outside the beltway who can make broadbased appeal. I just don't see anyone from the Senate crossing the finish line. The Senate Democrats haven't conveyed a strong sense of opposition or leadership.
I like Feingold, but his association with the weaknesses of our national representatives makes him vulnerable. He really has to step out from the pack and make his issues part of the national agenda.
A governor doesn't have to do that. Governors can take two or three local, successful programs and bring them to the national table. They have the added bonus of being DC outsiders.
I'm in CA and our governor sucks. I'd like to know about some of the Democrat governors in other states.
CNN just announced that De Lay was indicted a few minutes ago. Travis County issued the arrest warrant.
Dell I knew about all the medals.
Clark has twice as many btw. but it doesnt matter. right?
Well I'm really enjoying hearing about folks picks for Pres.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 03:07 PM
It wouldn't have mattered to the general public they wanted someone who they believed could save them from the boogeyman and he had Rove and we didn't. Most of the years were in the naval reserve.
How has Clark's background proven that he can 'govern'?
DeLay's mug shot should be on billboards, t-shirts, and bumper stickers. The poster boy for Republican values.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on October 19, 2005 at 03:08 PM
A lot.
Posted by ConfessorVoid on October 19, 2005 at 03:08 PM
Gov. Jennifer Granholm, of Michigan. I think she's done a good job with the mess that John Engler left her to deal with.
My bust letshelpdean I went up and reread your post :) Well guys i'm gonna go enjoy the sun for a bit BBL.
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - A Texas court on Wednesday issued a warrant for former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's arrest, and set an initial $10,000 bail as a routine step before his first court appearance on conspiracy and state money laundering charges.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5355153,00.html
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 03:07 PM
JFK served a short time on the senate and he is one of the most well like pres in US hisory. I really don't by the "experience" excuse or the "senate" excuse. I think you are either a good candidate or not. It boils down to ideas and the candidates ability to articulate it to the American people. Again, just my 2 cents.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 03:09 PM
Nah it doesn't matter to me, anyways. Gen. Clark has a chestful of medals, I'd like to see his DD214.. it's gotta be 3 pages long, with just awards, medals and citations. It'd be impressive to read I think.
I'm not asking folks to list CONS for their candidates but people should be thinking of them when picking their candidate as well.
CNN just announced that De Lay was indicted a few minutes ago. Travis County issued the arrest warrant.
Posted by Paul on October 19, 2005 at 03:09 PM
Hoooray!
Let's Just Hope this, folks.
WhoEver gets the nod for Pres candidate next time, Let's hope they have a better group of advisors than Kerry did! My opinion, he had way too many all giving their advice, and he managed to follow the wrong stuff !
It wasn't a matter that he was not a good candidate, or that his wife was a hindrance, the fact of the matter was, he just listened to the wrong people.
A fellow middle aged college student asked who Cheney is. sigh...and that person is registered to vote.
Back to the grind.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 03:12 PM
She was born in Vancouver I think.. but is now our Governor. I voted for her in 2002. She has to run against Dick DeVos (think Amway) in 2006. He's running as a Pug. I Jennifer wins in a landslide.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on October 19, 2005 at 03:11 PM
Trust me you don't become even a ONE star w/out being able to lead and govern your troops.
It takes time and effort and proven excellence!
There are a zillion bits of record on every move you make and if he squeezed out Oklahoma w/OUT being a regular politician you bet they would have found any dirt on his record.
He's so clean compared to most I think he must squeek. jmo.
one quickie - Granholm, Michigan's Gov, is awesome. She has an uphill battle in 2006, though, against DeVos. It was such a mess when she stepped in here, and then the rapid demise of Motor City hasn't helped. Highest unemployement in the nation (felt personally :(). Uphill battle. But she's awesome and has done a LOT LOT LOT to fight off the GOP Senate and House in this state from doing really stupid things like allowing Canada to export its trash to Michigan! (WTF) and was the first governor to remove supply restrictions on gas in the wake of Katrina, which kept our gas prices from skyrocketing beyond merely outrageous to ludicrous. Can you tell I'm a fan. :)
Ok, not a quickie. But gotta get the kiddos from school.
Anyone here read Sarah Vowel, Pass the Cannoli and The Partly Cloudy Patriot? She did a great piece in the latter book about Gore and how he was this great nerd and should not have run away from his nerdiness during the 2000 campagin. The press skewered Al Gore, all that b.s. about how he said he invented the Internet and was the model for Love Story. Well he WAS, but that's beside the point. And he won the election, but again, many lost lives later, that's history.
The man was misrepresented. He's an environmentalist, and the main reason he would get my vote is the same reason Clinton tapped him for V.P.: Al Gore was considered the smartest man in the Senate when he served there.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 03:17 PM
I agree. The only way you can become a Colonel is through, basically, a process that proves your leadership ability as well as your ability to "govern" per se. One of my friends was Colonel and that process was difficult has they went through his record with a fine toothed comb. He was questioned on things he did in the late 1970's right up until his packet was submitted and board happend.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 03:17 PM
Really not trying to be argumentative, as I know very little about Clark, but IMO there is a huge difference between governing troops and governing civilians. One of those groups doesn't face severe retribution for failing to agree with or do what their leader says.
Again, not trying to argue, but I'm not convinced on the better governor theory.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats asked the White House on Wednesday for details of President George W. Bush's private conversations in 2003 with top political adviser Karl Rove after conflicting reports about whether Bush was aware of any role by Rove in the outing of a covert CIA operative.
In a letter to Bush on Wednesday, Sen. Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat, asked for details about the president's conversations with Rove after The New York Daily News reported that the president was initially furious with when Rove conceded in 2003 that he had talked to the press about the Plame leak.
The Daily News account appeared to contradict assertions earlier this month by sources close to the case that Rove had kept his role from Bush, assuring him in a brief conversation in the fall of 2003 that he was not involved in any effort to punish Wilson by disclosing his wife's identity.
The Daily News said those earlier reports implying Rove had deceived Bush about his involvement in the Wilson counterattack were incorrect and were leaked by White House aides trying to protect the president.
"I urge you to immediately and publicly clear up the record," Schumer wrote.
"When was the president told?" asked the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, Rep. John Conyers of Michigan.
Does anyone think this might lead to a cover-up in trying to protect Bush?
oh btw - also not that it matters cuz I do hate most PUGS but - for MONTHS I hung out on a similar blog for CLARK and I would say at least a third of the blog loyalists were PUGS and willing to switch sides if he got the nomination. That's how much they loved him and his qualifications.
It was sad to see them depart after Clark tried to send us to Kerry's blog. :-(
Gee I wonder how many of them will sit OUT the next election cuz of W.
Gotta take my nephew to the Dr's. It is his 2yr check up. Later dems!
Here is an interesting site to get to know the democratic governors. They spotlight one or two from time to time too.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on October 19, 2005 at 03:21 PM
it's not that easy. See they also realize the troops don't get paid well and are from the lower levels of society as far as education goes - generally - so are more inclined to MESS up and PICK fights so they usually need a bit more discipline.
Plus we knew we could do almost anything and NOT get kicked out..... so often push the limit!
It worked both ways. Honestly. As I was there as witness. If you researched Clark at all I think you would agree he's a great idea.
Besides I don't even know if he's running again. He's probably broke from running the last time.
Karen - I think that Granholm can't run. She was born in Canada.
There is no one, repeat NO ONE that the G.O.P. won't smear. That Kerry actually lost votes due to the Smear Boat Liars proves it. We MUST reclaim the liberal label by using it and defining it! A Libertarian friend was SHOCKED when I called myself a liberal, and she's intelligent. "You're not a LIBERAL, Kim!" she said. Like it was a bad thing.
That said, the Presidency is not where we'll get this country saved. It will HELP -- but it's all the House races, and also the Senate.
I like Feingold, although I don't even know what he looks like. I used to think you had to have a basic name (Bush, Ford, Carter, Clinton) to get elected -- but the Guvernator proved me wrong.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 03:26 PM
One of the things I think that turned some off of Clark is that he is considered an outsider. Good or bad, it was the same thing said about Perot. We've gotten ourselves in a particular mindset where we believe only those that have served in a political capacity are suitable. Not always true.
Feingold - my daughter has met him as she lives in Madison. She said that the people in Wisconsin just love that man! She is very much in favor of seeing him on a ticket in 08'and would probably work on his champaine if he should run. I'm not sure if this has any weight to it as when she lived in Minnesota, she met Jesse at a dinner, sat across the table from him, and thought he was great too. Go figure.
I agree, once you give your word you must keep it. But you and I are both smart enough to find exceptions to that rule
The above was posted by Frostie earlier today. If this is not out of the Bush/Rove playbook then where? Ceratinly not Democrat.
I post this only because I knopw Frostie will be back and check. Maybe he will just not stay.
Blue
I agree with that and admit to voting for Perot. Of course if I had bothered to become more informed back then I'm sure I would have voted for Clinton.
I like when they DON'T fit the mold and come from OUT of the legacy of rich spoiled power hungry skull and bones types.....
Clark had to WORK for what he's accomplished. Nothing was given to him.
Hey Dawnie! Are you guys getting the heck out of the way of Wilma? Did I hear you may come to Atlanta?
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- A Texas court issued a warrant Wednesday for former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay to appear for booking, where he is likely to face the fingerprinting and photo mug shot he had hoped to avoid.
I can't wait!
Clark would be a great VP. Judging from my Pug brother-in-law, he'd turn SOME military folk to the Dem side because of his military background. Said brother-in-law admitted he'd vote for Kerry if he picked Clark as VP. . . and he'd vote for Clark against Bush any day.
I'd rather have as president someone with experience in D.C. or governing than simply a military man -- but for VP it's a great choice.
With the arrest warrant for Delay we should brace for a trollfest...
Hey {{Banditobrother}}
I doubt it. We will maybe drive one way or the other to avoid the eye depending on where it's heading by tomorrow evening.
My bro in Marathon has a room at some hotel in Florida City alerady booked for the weekend. They're tying down the Pirata yet again and sent an email saying it's getting very tiring! I bet.
If I head to my Aunts in Hotlanta I'll be sure to shoot you an email!! :-)
My Pick ?? Feingold
I live in Wisconsin - he's clean and honest, people respect him on both sides
He shows up for work everyday
He's an independent thinker
He's tight as they come fiscally - in a good way.
He looks good on TV - young and photogenic
Plus he actually has a plan to get out of Iraq - something other Dem leaders have been loathe to do
Kathy - I'm worried about Granhold keeping her Governorship! Not President. Please, don't give me a heart attack!!
ok i'm off for a spell!
Peace and pardon the typos!
BBL HUGS!
I just received this e-mail from moveon.org and I ask all of you to send this persoanl message to your representatives about your disgust with what they are doing to Medicare and Medicade. Most know I'm handicapped and wheelchair bound. I'm asking that all do me a favor and send this in. Please go to their website to sign this. Below is a copy of the e-mail;
Dear MoveOn member,
"As soon as tomorrow morning, the House of Representatives will consider a Republican amendment to permanently slash funding for basic health care, nutrition and education services for the poor. The budget proposal already calls for $35 billion in cuts, but top Republicans want to push it up to $50 billion. Meanwhile, the same budget proposal calls for $70 billion in new tax breaks, largely for the wealthy".
"It's reverse Robin Hood politics—robbing the poor to pay back the rich".
"So today we're aiming to send 50,000 personal messages to Congress in 24 hours—round II of our emergency budget campaign. We're asking them to vote against the expanded cuts this Thursday, and oppose any budget package that slashes services for the poor while handing out tax breaks to the rich. Can you send a short note right now"?
Will, I signed and returned that yesterday as well as called my two senators and congressman and left 'strong' words that they are not to cut benefits...etc. None of the three had yet 'taken a position' on the issue. Yea-right. They are all Repugs (SC) and vote the party line. I told them we would be watching their vote.
Joan / Kathy: i have been most pleasantly impressed with the literature i've received from Feingold.
this article, written by a former CIA analyst, blows the doors off Cheney's propoganda machine:
Face it, America. You’ve been punk'd.
It is now quite clear that the outing of Valerie Plame was part of a broader White House effort to mislead and manipulate U.S. public opinion as part of an orchestrated effort to take us to war. The unraveling of the Valerie Plame affair has exposed their scam—and it extends well beyond compromising the identity of a CIA officer. In short, the Bush administration organized and executed a classic “covert action” program against the citizens of the United States.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20051019/dick_cheneys_covert_action.php
letshelpdean,
Thanks for that! People just don't know the hardships this bill would bring on any of us who are handicapped, and or disabled. We barely can scrape by as it is, and this funding cut will deny us needed services like dental and eye care. There would be no way I could affors that on $714 a month. They're liable to lower the spend down minimum limit for others. In other words, make it so that the poverty line which makes you have to pay spend down is lower than now, forcing poorer folks to have to pay a premium for Medicade. They could possibly raise the spend down people pays now, and we just can not afford it. It will put more people to decide whether to go to the doctor, buy medicine, or pay their bills. Folks, we're talking about the poor, handicapped, old, and children here. Thanks again, Letshelpdean for your help.
And it proves, in the last place, that liberty can have nothing
to fear from the judiciary alone, but would have everything to
fear from its union with either of the other departments."
-- Alexander Hamilton (Federalist No. 78, 1788)
Suppose we should keep this in mind when Mier come up for vote?
This is the best - arrest warrant issued for Tom Delay. Book 'em Danno!
Face it, America. You’ve been punk'd.
Well, that explains everything. The eerie feeling that you get everday like you are the only one that knows the truth and everyone else is on something. The way that so many in leadership positions and in the media seem to be mouthing words that don't make sense. The elections...
Damn you Ashton Kutcher! Come out you bastich!
My daughter is a graduate of UW- Madison. While a student there, she did research on so-called 'honor-killings' as part of her studies. This article is one of the most disgusting things I have read in a long time.
Will -- there's another one on TruthOut:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/101905J.shtml
Once again, the handouts will go to the wealthiest, leaving the burden squarely on the ever-growing poor.
I begin to wonder why we even bother electing people to Congress. I've never seen such an arrogant group in all my life. They act exactly like the "bad Russians" and "bad Chinese" we learned about in school. Everything they do is exactly what we were told made Communists "bad" and why we should hate them.
Well, I certainly hate this bunch, G'd forgive the emotion.
Both NC senators and a few of the new reps are in DeLay's pocket and that automatically infers Bush and Moon (given the broad money trails). After all the bitching and screaming in the streets about Congresspeople serving themselves, lining their pockets, taking basic healthcare away from those who need it the most while making sure that they have life-long pensions and healthcare you'd think they'd at least want to make a passing appearance of "governing" instead of "ruling".
Vastly different concepts.
Congress has made it crystalline clear that says there IS a ruling class and unless you're on the Hill, you ain't in it.
You watch, Congress will hand down another big "FAH KEW" by way of tax breaks for the rich by taking food out of the mouths of Americans.
For Congress, I have a bigfat FAH KEW right back. I doubly resent it when they erode my rights and privacy then call ME immoral for being what G'd intended. There is NO morality to be found on the Hill, obviously.
Oo! I'm so ticked...
Joan - my daughter graduated from Ball State in Muncie and went on for her Masters at Minn State. She now lives in Madison. She moved there becasue she couldn't stand living in Indiana. She loves Madison.
I wrote to you a few weeks ago but I don't know if you read my post or not. I feel we got started on the wrong foot. I made a comment about my daughter getting it on with a Marine during the DC protest. You took exception to what I said. I was so sorry if I said something I shouldn't have. I so wanted to talk to you but was afraid that I might make it worse.
I always thought we'd hit it off becasue I was born and raised in Wausau, went to Whitwater State and worked at Mitchell Field in Milwaukee.
Sometimes if I don't get back to someone on the blog it's because I'm at work and it becomes very hectic here at times. Right now, we are under construction and my office is being moved - totally. It's a mess but I wouldn't mess not posting when I can..
Face it, America. You’ve been punk'd.
***
Great article by Larry Johnson. I can feel it, the house of cards is about to crumble. Pity that we can't have a recall election for President.
Oh Kathy - don't worry hon!! I took no offense - just a little too proud of my kid for my own good! Sometimes it comes out sideways!! :)
Madison is a nice town to settle down in - my daughter loved being there in the thick of things. Very exciting for her.
I took my Master's courses at Whitewater too. Not so exciting. Ha!! :)
Jen, I am not acting superior and never have. Get your facts straight and quit relying on the advice of others. I always have been and always will be honest with my posts and positions and have not been sent here to stir up trouble.
CB
I thought about your question all afternoon and came to the following conclusions.
Strictly speaking about my primary vote:
I would vote against Clark. If memory serves me correctly, there was a lot of talk about Clark only running as a dem because Bush wouldn't appoint him to a high level position. I also seem to remember that Powell and Stormin Norman were against him because of something in his past. We never found out what and I wont speculate what it might be but I have serious reservations about voting for Clark.
Gore had his chance and blew it. Although, as I have stated on multiple occasions, I am a tad bit more conservative than most of you and normally tend to support southern democrats because they are more conservative.
Kerry. Nada. Didn't vote for him last time.
Hillary. I dont trust her as far as I can throw her. She is in it for the power and glory. Is it me or has anybody else noticed that she has become more hawkish and conservtive which would hint at a run.
Feingold. Although he is not a southern dem. Russ is extremely likable and honest. He has worked well with McCain over the years and the only time I met him he was extremely polite and respectful. He is very fiscally conservative and not opposed to "straying off the beaten path." So far, he would be my pick but to be honest, I haven't really thought about future nominees simply because 08 is a long way away.
My opinion about Evan B is very close to that of Feingold. Probably need to do some more research on him.
I am sure there are other candidates to consider but I haven't had a chance to really think about it.
Blue - a trollfest? That's terribly funny! I was wondering what has happened to them. Maybe I shouldn't talk too loud, it is so much better when we don't have that pond scum around.
So you voted for the fake cowboy with the alcohol and drug addiction???
That doesn't say alot for your opinion or your ability to weigh issues.
Sorry.
Kathy,
yeah, they always seem to come in smelling of koolaid when their leader takes another one in the shorts.
Oh good Joan - I'm so glad you're not mad. I know it's hard having a kid over there. We have a nephew who left in August. It has split our family right in half! Over Labor Day, we had to go to sister in law. I was told I couldn't say anything negative about Bush or the war. I told my husband I'd go along with that but if they started it, then I was going to speak my mind. everything went well except for when my daughter and I took off on Sunday to go to Cindy Sheehans Tour - when I got back to the house, I got the cold shoulder. Oh well...
Do you remember Fricker Hall? I stayed there. We always answered the phones - Mary Fricker girls are quicker! haha
Blue
I have already explained my stance on Kerry in previous posts. I wont repost them here to save thread space. With that said, they shouldn't be too hard to find.
Frostie
Posted by Frostie94 on October 19, 2005 at 04:34 PM
I really don't care about your stance on Kerry. What piqued my interest was your vote for the other man. Explain that.
Kathy - You obviously had more fun in Whitewater than I ever did! By the time I got there, I was married with two little ones - so I commuted and hope I could make it home in time to tuck them in and watch Knots Landing!
Very flat there. But then, you live in Indiana. :)
Why waste time and effort conversing with someone who didn't even vote Dem last election? I don't need Koolaid drinkers on my blog. . . cuz after 4 years of DumbFug, who in god's name would be stupid enough to vote for him again? Unless of course one had drunk enough neocon/fundie koolaid to disarm all sense of moral outrage or rationale.
Quack.
Sure, if you dont then turn around and nail me for breaking my promise to (forgot his name) to not repost my posts.
I have to step our for a couple of hours and will reply shortly.
Frostie
LOL Kim
made it back in time for that giggle! thanks! LOL
evil laugh - bad bad dawn
why it is important to know your foe as well as you know yourself
The above was posted by Frostie earlier today. I think this is why he is here asking so many questions. He wants to get our take on the issues to take back to his hole in the ground.
Posted by KimB on October 19, 2005 at 04:40 PM
R & I call that a "koolade kegger".
Dom,
With all due respect, our party does want my gun(s), it does want to ban God from all aspects of public life, and it does favor gay marriage. To many voters, and not just those here in WV, these issues scare the hell out of them.
The only thing your forgot to add was flag burning.
Posted by Frostie94 on October 16, 2005 at 12:28 AM
This was all I needed to make the decision that the guy is a troll. What Democrat, thinks this about the party? What Republican wouldn't love to post this guy of koolaid, rhetoric, spin, BS onto the Democratic blog?
Ignore him,
Joan - my daughter graduated from Ball State in Muncie and went on for her Masters at Minn State. She now lives in Madison. She moved there becasue she couldn't stand living in Indiana. She loves Madison.
I wrote to you a few weeks ago but I don't know if you read my post or not. I feel we got started on the wrong foot. I made a comment about my daughter getting it on with a Marine during the DC protest. You took exception to what I said. I was so sorry if I said something I shouldn't have. I so wanted to talk to you but was afraid that I might make it worse.
I always thought we'd hit it off becasue I was born and raised in Wausau, went to Whitwater State and worked at Mitchell Field in Milwaukee.
Sometimes if I don't get back to someone on the blog it's because I'm at work and it becomes very hectic here at times. Right now, we are under construction and my office is being moved - totally. It's a mess but I wouldn't mess not posting when I can..
In regards to guns this party wants to make the country a safer place for our kids, people, police officers.. for everyone.. by eliminating the guns that serve no purpose but to kill. Why would anybody need an AK-47?? I guess he's been misinformed like I was. Nothing wrong with background checks at gun shows, for gun purchases and banning assault weapons as far as I can see. The criminals will get guns any way they can.. but if we didn't have these assault rifles and the such around they'd do a lot less damage.
Wish i knew when Fitzgerald was going to drop his load. I'd drive to DC to find myself a barstool as close to Capitol Hill as I could. Now that would be a fine way to spend an evening.
Ok I think I'm having a melt down with my computer. You see, my switchboard is on my computer so that everytime I get a call, it switchs the screen from whatever I'm doiong to the switchboard screen. It's crazy..so, I've got to get off right now aS THEY ARE TAKING MY COMPUTER AND MY KEY BOARD (SEE WHAT JUST HAPPENED) away and I'm done for the day.
There's always tomorrow..
Talk to you all in the morning - in my temp new office. And as usual -
Keep on Rockn'
Not much info on Delay being arrested? Y not?
Wilma is sure coming along in perfect time for all these other W troubles! Drat.
Dell I agree w/ya on that. The LESS the better. Like nukes, etc.
How about a Federal law mandating an automatic Prison term of 10 years with NO possibility of parole or "time off" for any crime committed using a gun?
This would be ON Top of the State Punishment, whether prison or not. Get out of jail on the Local charge, and go directly to Federal Prison.
Anyone have a print article on the latest Miers development? That is, that Spector has sent the paperwork from Miers back as totally insufficient? This has been reported on NPR news for the past few hours.
Sure sounds like its going down in flames!
huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/whats-the-difference-bet_b_9140.html
This was enlightening to me. The differences and similarities of Liberals and Progressives. David Sirota is THE MAN.
bb, Fitzgerald's Grand Jury only meets on Wednesday and Friday. Book your reservations now for the Hotel Willard, or Abrahamof's joint, "Signitures".
Marc - if Bush pulls Miers, what happens next do you think? A real flame-thrower ? I bet.
DPD on October 19, 2005 at 05:01 PM:
I am sorry, but I am against "get tough" mandatory sentence laws. I think its just plain bad law. I'd prefer laws that leave it to the judge to decide on the appropriate punishment with direction or guidelines for increase for specific reasons, such as use of a gun in the comission of the crime.
Is anyone else having trouble getting there posts to show up? Or am I just paranoid again?
No, Joan. Cards (although if it's the Cardinals, that means the Playoffs went 7 games, and the Cardinal Pitching staff will be fatigued).
Then the Cards will beat the White Sox in 6.
(I said this before the All Star Break, and I'm sticking with it).
Joan, if it dosn't show up after you post it just refresh...
bb - DPD can't come to Washington. He's camping out at US Cellular Field.
Joan on October 19, 2005 at 05:06 PM:
Don't know who would be next, but I doubt it could be anyone more loyal to the Bushes. I also doubt it could be someone more to the right, or less qualified... well, scratch that last comment... W always seems to find someone less qualified.
I'm just pointing out that there are now solid indicators from Spector that Miers isn't going to make it out of his committee.
For anyone in VA. Here's the latest FactCheck, saying the GOP ad is a lie:
The Republican candidate for Virginia governor claims his opponent "says that Adolf Hitler doesn't qualify for the death penalty." But that's not what the Democrat said
bb, I'll buy the first round!
Tanqueray & tonic sounds festive.
And another Lie
Mehlman claims,"Before Ms. Miers was even announced many Democrat groups said they would oppose her." Actually, none did.
DPD - I posted this AM but don't know if you saw it.
I, as a die-hard Cubbies fan of 50 years, find myself in the unfathomable position of actually rooting for the Sox. (did I just say that out loud?) This is a one-time offer which expires at the end of the month.
Governor Rod is going to the game, but he refuses to wear a Sox hat. He's taking his 9 year old daughter so she can experience a World Series Game in her lifetime. (He's a die-hard Cubs fan, and is raising her right).
He said "Just look at History, this may never happen on the North side. Spoken like a TRUE Cubbie!
Sorry for length, but sent by Paul Hackett in email form.....
Everyday more American soldiers are killed and wounded in Iraq. The violence and attacks on innocent Iraqi citizens continues to go unchecked. Billions of dollars have been spent, yet, we have no coherent exit plan.
As a Marine, I witnessed first-hand the devastation and destruction of this war. The mistruths and deception of the Bush administration have created a quagmire. That's why I signed the pledge to only send responsible leaders to Washington. And I'm asking you to do the same.
I pledge to only support candidates who:
Acknowledge that the U.S. was misled into the war in Iraq
Advocate for a responsible exit plan with a timeline
Support our troops both at home and abroad
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/iraqpledge
It's time for leaders to step up to the plate and face the Iraq mess head-on because the situation only keeps getting worse. But, before we can fix it, Washington must first acknowledge the crisis we are in. You can help. Take a stand and sign the pledge to hold candidates accountable on the Iraq war.
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/iraqpledge
I served my country on the front lines in Iraq and saw the consequences of failed leadership up close. We need new leadership in Washington that will face this crisis with courage.
Join me and tens of thousands of Americans by standing up and telling Washington to start planning our exit now. Sign the pledge today:
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/iraqpledge
Thank you,
Paul Hackett
P.S. When you view the pledge map, you can learn about other patriotic Americans who've signed the pledge in every corner of the country. Take a look, and then sign the pledge:
hi folks!
did anyone see/hear Peter Galbraith on Al Franken's show a couple days ago? it was very interesting, talking about the reason that the Shiites don't trust us. They still remember Bush I encouraging them to rise up and overthrow Saddam, and when they did, we didn't help them, and Saddam killed 300,000 of them. Bush I led them to believe that we would back them up and we left them high and dry.
Yuck. Someone asked at the WH press briefing today whether Bono would be appointed to a position in George's administration.
you know larry, i usually like david sirota but i think his definitions of liberal and progressive are arbitrary. since when is not liberal to take on major corporations?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/whats-the-difference-bet_b_9140.html
Budget Talking Points (Sojourners Online):
Many in Congress claim that Hurricane Katrina has driven congressional spending and budgets out of control, and that sweeping cuts to vital social services are justified because of these increases. This claim couldn't be further from the truth.
Fiction : Government spending is dangerously high.
Fact: Even with new Katrina funds, federal spending as a percentage of the economy is below the 30-year average. Arguments like these are driven by an ideological determination to shrink government, not reality.
Fiction : Deficits are spinning out of control because of reckless spending and new Katrina relief.
Fact : The root of the problem of skyrocketing deficits is new tax cuts for the very wealthy, not new spending. For the past three years, tax revenues as a percentage of the economy are at a 30-year low. Nevertheless, many in Congress will stop at nothing to enact new tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans. Between now and 2010, the cost of the Bush tax cuts (if extended) will total $1.7 trillion. Katrina relief - even when you amount interest costs, is projected at $240 billion - less than 15% of what the tax cuts will cost. And yet there is momentum behind a plan this year to add an additional $70 billion in new tax cuts - mostly for the very wealthy. Simply put, this plan is out of touch with our values.
To understand how the American press corps lost its way -- and became an
accessory to the Bush administration's deceptive case for war in Iraq -- one has
to look back three decades to a different era when reporters challenged the
national security elite. The counterattack against that challenge led directly
to the rise of the neoconservatives and the rise of the "patriotic journalist,"
personified by the likes of the New York Times Judith Miller.
For the full story on how the U.S. news media went full circle from Vietnam to
Iraq, go here
Hey Jen - I have to run out for dinner - when I get back I'll try to show you a picture of my new cat. She's pathetically ugly. I'm in love. :) bbib
Joan,
Sorry, that was a separate link I didn't included with the email. Map of who pledged.
{{{Pamb}}} Hackett Rocks!
The Occupiers Trial|A running soap opera - the trial of Saddam Hussein by Pepe Escobar
{{JenJen}}
So I hear ! I sent him a contribution and will try and do more.
Yay Pam! Ohio thanks you!
Sleuths Crack Tracking Code Discovered in Color Printers
It sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it isn't. The pages coming out of your color printer may contain hidden information that could be used to track you down if you ever cross the U.S. government.
Let's play a game. Which of the 14 points of fascism might this fall under? or does it not fit?
Rice won't rule out troops in Iraq in 10 years
I'd this say this is one of the best reasons why Rice won't be president.
Bush’s right hand henchman, Karl Rove, has testified four times before the grand jury investigating the case and special prosecutor James Fitzgerald may be ready to hand down indictments. It took quite a while for the corporate media to pay attention to the illegal outing of a CIA agent, and therein lies a very sordid tale.
Jeff Gannon, born James Guckert, is like the bad penny that won’t go away. Gannon is the “reporter” from the now defunct Talon News Service. Talon was a Republican phony news service that existed only to bolster White House propaganda efforts. When would be reporter Gannon was still calling himself Guckert he was also advertising his services as a gay prostitute.
It is easy to be distracted by Gannon’s personal life because this administration cynically uses anti-gay bigotry to energize its political base. As tempting as it would be to expose the ugly underbelly of the already ugly, that would not do justice to the point of this column.
While the private lives of the Bushmen may be ugly – no surprise there – it is their public lives which must be closely scrutinized. In the scheme of things it really is not important that Gannon used to be a professional whore. It is important that this former prostitute and phony reporter was allowed to gain access to the classified information that identified Plame. Gannon is a bit coy, saying only that “I acquired knowledge of the memo….“
We already know he wasn’t really a reporter. If Gannon “acquired knowledge” of anything classified it is because someone gave him the information. The self-made web site porn star had a friend in a very high place.
HOOOOOOOOOOOOoly Cow
*UCKER CARLTON just stepped in his own shit, and put his foot in his mouth. (Lardball)
Matthews had to correct Tucks (hemmorhoid pads) that he is making up dates, and changing chronologies.
(I like Lardball using the term 'RamRod" to refute Uck-er's pure BS)
Meanwhile, the worst and ugliest act undertaken by this administration, the occupation of Iraq, continues. President Bush made it clear in a recent speech that it isn’t going to end anytime soon. We must not falter, we must stay the course, we must continue the war on terror and so on.
Occupations are inherently oppressive. You can’t take over someone else’s country without breaking bodies, homes and dignity. We saw a brief glimpse of the humiliation and violence waged against Iraqis when photos of abuse and death at Abu Ghraib prison were first made public. As awful as those images were, there are more to come that are apparently much, much worse.
The American Civil Liberties Union sued the federal government to force the release of an additional 87 photographs and 4 videos. The feds took the position that the images will ruin America’s image abroad and increase the likelihood of terror attacks. That is quite an admission of guilt.
It has been reported that these new photos may depict the sexual abuse of women and minors. If that is true it will be further proof that the U.S. is in fact the infidel, the great Satan and anything else that will cause aggrieved people to want to kill us all.
Speaking of photos and Iraq, the mixture of violence and sex recently exposed yet another incident that goes under the heading of “scandals that should have been but were swept under the rug.” A patriotic porn meister offered access to his web site to anyone who submitted photographic evidence of military service in Iraq or Afghanistan. Some soldiers sent humdrum shots of Baghdad while others felt compelled to use gruesome images of bodies blown to bits.
It seems the government doesn’t have to worry about more Abu Ghraib photos. They have to worry about horny soldiers emailing pictures of dead bodies so that they can see pictures of live nude girls.
The war in Iraq, like every other war, has killed and maimed thousands of people. Unlike other wars the killers in this conflict have digital cameras and can spread their handiwork thousands of miles away in a matter of seconds.
more at...blackcommentator
Anyone read Tom Friedman's column today? He's getting closer to the message. I'm working on an essay of where I think we need to be. Once I get it together I'll post it and you'all can hate me. But I need to do it. Don't hold your breath, it takes me a while.
The Porn of War
On November 15, 2004, a report on CNN.com briefly described a clash in the Iraqi city of Baquba, including an insurgent attack with rocket-propelled grenades on members of the First Infantry Division, in which four American soldiers were wounded. CNN did not post any images of the battle, and the incident wasn't given much attention in other media.
But visitors to the amateur porn website nowthatsfuckedup.com were given a much closer view of the action: "today in baquba we got into the shit again and got some of it on vid.....this is me and my wingman fuckin some shit up when these fucks shot 3 rpg's at us so we took down the whole spot.....look for yourself...the fight lasted like 85 mins total and they are still counting up the bodies."
The poster, an anonymous soldier identified only as "Stress_Relief," uploaded two videos of the clash onto the website, drawing enthusiastic responses from patrons: "nice work, guys. Keep blasting those mujadeen [sic] bastards."
Originally created as a site for men to share images of their sexual partners, this site has taken the concept of user-created content to a grim new low: US troops stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan are invited to display graphic battlefield photos apparently taken with their personal digital cameras. And thousands of people are logging on to take a look.
The website has become a stomach-churning showcase for the pornography of war--close-up shots of Iraqi insurgents and civilians with heads blown off, or with intestines spilling from open wounds. Sometimes photographs of mangled body parts are displayed: Part of the game is for users to guess what appendage or organ is on display.
One soldier who goes by the alias "shottyintheboddy" said in an e-mail exchange with The Nation that he posts combat images on the site because it gives civilians a more accurate view of his life in Iraq. "I mostly take interest in the response of civis back home. Most know what CNN tells them and couldn't hack it here," the soldier wrote. He added that he recommended the site to his fellow soldiers, and knows others who post.
more at...The Nation
That Sick, Dom
What happens to these guys when you get them over there? Most of them are kids. And for those who want a look, how sick they have to be?
Other wars this country fought, like WWI and WWII , and Korean War, etc, you didn't have this sick crap going on. and it wasn't because there was no internet. Soldiers had more honor.
A Pube mouthpiece on Lardball, while trying to defend Rove, et. al. brought up "Sherman Adams", who Ike asked to resign.
(Now they're reaching back 50 years)
Turns out that Sherman Adams (Asst. to the Pres. {Now known as 'Chief of Staff"} was forced to resign due to questionable ethics.
Sherman Adams
Here's "The Smoking Gun", a typed note thanking someone for their "support".
Click On the Letter Twice
If Ike was so clean that he wouldn't let even the hint of corruption taint the Office, WHAT IS ALKY THE CRACK HEAD DOING PROTECTING THESE GUYS?
Unless it's the other way around?
PARTNERSHIP WITH AMERICA (I like that!)
Freedom
Equality
Economic Opportunity
Global Democracy
Clinton was skilled at addressing specific issues that people could FEEL. The above are pretty high brow issues that I'm afraid, although important, won't connect with people. "Protecting the Middle Class" may actually get at the same issues you address under Equality and Economic Opportunity.
Lakoff argues for framing issues in ways that change the nature of the discussion. Republicans turned late term abortion into "partial-birth abortion"; and the estate tax became the "death tax".
Yes, I oversimplified the marketing analogy but I'm afraid there's far more marketing involved in American politics than we might like to admit. We need to understand very well segments of the voter population and their interests and needs; define our values; and "frame" the discussion in ways that many in this country will support.
Republicans eat our lunch in practicing the fine art of defining what they're for and formulating policy initiatives aimed at specific voter audiences.
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/357107p-304312c.html
President gives Karl Rove a tongue-lashing over his reckless and rogue and ill-advised leaking of national security information. Father Bush called anyone who "leaks the name of a covert agent...the most insidious of traitors."
Perhaps it's too little too late, especially with rumors swirling about VP Dick Cheney's potential willingness to resign over this matter.
Republican strategist Mary Matalin says that "Scooter" Libby is Cheney's "Cheney" and he does for the vice president the same thing that the vice president does for the president.
In light of this information, we can only conclude that either Mr. Bush is the stupidest and most incompetent leader this country has ever had, and is thus unworthy of trust, OR he authorized the "media hit" on Joseph Wilson's wife, ordered by the vice-president Cheney, with the relevant information investigated and leaked by both Karl Rove and Lewis "Scooter" Libby.
If the vice president is offering his resignation, even though he repeatedly claimed in 2000 and 2004 that he had no presidential aspirations (now we know why given that he was planning treasonous actions to support this president), he could not have "left the reservation" and "gone rogue" if he was not authorized by the president. If this was not authorized by the president, then this is the most reckless, rogue, and out-of-control incompetent president this country has ever had.
What an embarassment to the Bushes. I can only think now of Dana Carvey's imitations of the first president Bush from "Saturday Night Live": constantly mocking the former president's "small man's complex" trying to live up to the "gipper's" (Reagan) legacy. As SNL mocked: "Don't wanna be a one-termer."
Well, now we see that there is nothing that this president will not do to make sure that his family honor is upheld, even if it means ultimately embarassing and dishonoring the family name by making himself "the most insidious of traitors" as his father, the former president chides. Seems the incompetence apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Simple this is the weakest and most incompetent and most dangerous leader this country has ever had -- and it is TRULY a matter of character.
Posted by LAMinKI on October 19, 2005 at 07:37 PM
Do you have a link to that article? I didn't see my office's NY Times today...
J.F.C!!!!!!!!!!!
Pam,
For the last time, I am not a troll. The simple fact is that the Democratic Party is anti-gun. The Brady Bill was nothing more than a cosmetic bandaid on a much serious problem (poverty and our failed war on drugs). For the last 7-8 years, Handgun Inc (AKA The Brady Campaign) has made dire prediction about number of states passing right to carry laws. They also made dire predictions about not renewing the Brady Bill. Not one of those predictions has come true. In fact, the crime rate has actually fallen. Our party's stance on guns did scare many rural democrats (including myself). I cant help it if the truth hurts.
It also looks like you are taking lessons from other people here by taking one of my posts, which supports your argument, while leaving others out. If memory serves me correctly, Dom and I were discussing why WV, my home state, went for Bush twice. The simple fact is that our party has taken a polarizing position on God in government. Many rural dems and many WV dems disagree with that position. In addition, our party favors gay marriage (for the record, I favor gay marriage), and that scares many WV Dems.
With respect to letshelpdean's absurd idea that the GOP needs little old me to figure out democratic strategy is not insulting to our party, but to everybody here. The GOP already knows the DNC position on every issue just as we know their position.
CB
If you are around, let me know and I will respond to your earlier posts.
Frostie
Your mistake is the missing link between being anti-gun and being anti-defense. Democrats are strong on defense and we will always defend this country "against all enemies" (as Richard Clarke writes) "foreign and domestic."
The simplest way of doing this is to make sure that everyone can have guns. But when everyone has guns, paranoia and fear reigns supreme and law and order disappears. Folks shoot their neighbor because they know that if they confront their neighbor, it is a tacit "declaration of war" and their neighbor will never stop being an asshole unless you give him a rap on the beard. But since he's still alive and he's now dishonored, he will want to come back for blood. Since it's purely a matter of safety -- in an anarchic environment where law and order doesn't help you -- why engage in confrontations when you can just shoot your neighbor and make sure he doesn't come back at you from behind a bush somewhere after his bloody lip heals?
This is the dissolution of civil society as we know it. We understand the logic of being able to bear arms freely, but then again, there can be no law and civil society if guns are that free.
Who hasn't seen "The Godfather"?
CB
Before I respond to your question, why do you want to know? Are you curious about my views on politics? Are you trying to find out which one of us (my detractors or me) is full of crap? Which one of us is misrepresenting the facts?
Or are you just curious?
I will respond regardless but am just curious why you want to know. So far you seem level headed and fair. We have agreed on some things and disagreed on others. Even when you disagree with me you have always been respectful and I appreciate that, which is why I will respond to your questions. I just hope you dont turn my post around on me. I am still getting attacked and misrepresented by others who selectively try to use my posts against me.
Frostie
Merry Fitzmas, y'all!
Republicans eat our lunch in practicing the fine art of defining what they're for and formulating policy initiatives aimed at specific voter audiences.
Posted by Dunkling on October 19, 2005 at 08:06 PM
Translation: Pubes lie and manipulate with billion dollar bogus "think tanks"--oh yeah, and steal elections. DPD, your prose is so lovely--lovin' it. What's cookin'? Didja see the photo of Dean riding mass transit? LOVE IT!
Jen: Good links to Tom and Maureen.
this was the whole theme of that movie "Friday"
"You silly punk kids: so quick to pick up a gun -- you're all scared to take an ass-whippin'. All you need is to put up your dukes: you win some and you lose some, but you live; you live to fight another day."
Has the American culture of "winning" (the 'offense' of 'losing' in Vietnam now drives most of our "big dick" politics today) become so important that we hold on so tight that our civil society is disintegrating just so we can achieve a single military victory?? Why was our president so quick to declare "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" and we are still entrenched in a war that "officially" ended over two years ago?
I think America needs to wake up.
Claudius
You dont happen to own any horses do you?
I had better be careful here. To date, no credible evidence exists linking gun ownership to crime or the dissolution of civil society. IMHO, poverty and the failed war on drugs are the two primary reasons for the violent crime rate in this country (which has been steadily declining).
WV has more gun owners than just about anybody and we have one of the lowest crime rates in the country.
Frostie
President gives Karl Rove a tongue-lashing over his reckless and rogue and ill-advised leaking of national security information. Father Bush called anyone who "leaks the name of a covert agent...the most insidious of traitors."
Posted by Claudius on October 19, 2005 at 08:13 PM
-------------------------------------------------
That's about all Bush will do to Rove, a tongue lashing. I'd say it's another kind of tongue lashing though, the kind you get for a congradulations. Anyhow, how well I remember Bush saying he would FIRE anyone caught in this. What's he going to do, fire Rove, Libby, and Cheney? The truth is not in Bush and neither could you beat it out of him.
Hey, Frostie. Don't have a meltdown, okay? Democrats are not anti-gun. That's pube lie glue that holds up their illusionary house of merde. Illinois is one of the bluest states in the union, and they are building a rockin' sporting complex for all types of gun owners. Check it out by clicking on my name. The promo goes "bang" in a kewl way.
Dems don't like children to have guns, or guns at school/workplace/domestic conflicts, etc. We also tend to frown on assault weapons and ammunition that is more suitable in nightmares than reality.
this is interesting...
Below, some extremely sensitive information about the impending conclusion of the valerie plame investigations. The sources include two senior members of senate and key staffers; counsel for individuals that have been called before the grand jury; and two journalists taking a lead position in investigating the case. the following represents a composite of the information from those sources.
Plamegate coming to conclusion. The investigation has focused mostly closely on vice president cheney and his staff, as well as us ambassador to the un (and former undersecretary of state for arms control) john bolton and his staff. We are told that eight indictments have already prepared, with the possibility of another ten. These indictments include senior white house staff, most notably vice president cheney's chief of staff scooter libby, fred fleitz (special assistant to john bolton), and--very surprisingly--national security adviser steve hadley. Apparently, libby and hadley have both been told by their lawyers to expect indictments. The indictment of senior bush political advisor karl rove seems highly probable.
Most critically, a plea bargain process has evidently been opened with vice president cheney's lawyer. That does not mean that an indictment is coming. But i've some critical background around the issue.
In the past several days, former secretary of state Colin Powell had a meeting with senator John McCain (R-AZ), primarily about the McCain-sponsored amendment on inserting a rider prohibiting torture onto the us defense budget (a bill which Powell has himself been lobbying heavily for, against objections of President Bush).
during the meeting, Powell recounted to the senator that he had traveled on air force one with Bush and Cheney, and brought to their attention a classified memorandum about the issue of whether there was indeed a transaction inolving Niger and yellow cake uranium. the document included Ambassador Joe Wilson's involvement and identified his wife, Valerie Plame, as a covert agent. The memorandum further stated that this information was secret. Powell told McCain that he showed that memo only to two people--president and vice president. according to Powell, Cheney fixated on the Wilson/Plame connection, and Plame's status.
Powell testified about this exchange in great length to the grand jury investigating the Plame case. according to sources close to the case, Powell appeared convinced that the vice president played a focal role in disclosing plame's undercover status.
In his conversation with McCain, Powell felt that--at a minimum--there would be a serious shakeup at national security council as a consequence. In particular, vice president Cheney would no longer hold a pivotal role in us national security affairs. Powell apparently did not discuss the potential of a Cheney resignation.
Lead prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has apparently been looking at the precedent of formerly indicted Nixon vice president Spiro Agnew. This shows the likely path, because addressing executive immunity and privilege questions would necessarily begin start with a plea-bargain deal that would entail a resignation.
This is all likely to occur within the next week. 28 october (next friday) is the last day of the grand jury, and no requests have been made to extend their session. The investigator is expecting to wrap up by then.
There are enormous implication for what would be the biggest white house shakeup since the Iran-Contra scandal in the Reagan era. president Bush's approval rating at 39% has already led to a significant decrease in policy efficacy with key legislators in congress (which I've already discussed at length elsewhere). I'll spin out the broader policy implications when I have some time to write at greater length, but I wanted to get this out immediately.
One interesting point though--it is worth noting that a parade of senior republican senators have evidently been privately pushing McCain to lobby to be Cheney's replacement. Senator Lindsay Graham (R-SC) has also been mentioned. Meanwhile, the White House has already been developing countermeasures--notably including senior White House officials privately voicing president Bush's disappointment in Karl Rove's involvement in the case, calling it "misconduct." An urgent search for a Rove replacement is already underway.
Posted by PamB on October 19, 2005 at 06:53 PM
It's none of my business, but I hope you sent it to his campaign and not through MoveOn or some other PAC.
To think that Democrats, or liberals, for that matter, do not own guns is simply a conservative stereotype. As a lifelong Democrat, I own guns, primarily for home defense purposes. After what happened in the aftermath of Katrina, I know I can't depend on the government to protect me in the event of any kind of natural disaster or terrorist attack. We are one power-outage away from anarchy in this country, and the government is obviously drastically unprepared. It is a sad statement about our society and particularly the inept administration now in charge. They've put incompetent cronies in very important positions, but I am not going to let Bush's stupidity risk the lives of my family. Nothing wrong with being a well-armed, well-trained liberal.
Fade2bluz, your frustration hardly translates into a plan for how Democrats regain the public's trust and support. Admitting that Republicans have done a better job in running campaigns and framing the political discourse (and a downright lousy job of governing) is not earth shaking. We can take it and hopefully learn from past experiences. Go to a neighbor who voted for Bush and see if they view things in the black or white version you describe. We must learn how to speak to swing voters, those who ultimately determine most elections.
Posted by marsh on October 19, 2005 at 08:44 PM
Thanks for that update, Marsh. Under those circumstances, why would the President himself not have any accountability? That would fill in the ever-present "what Bush knew and when he knew it" question. I would assume that he would have some culpability here because it would appear that he had seen the memorandum and one could postulate that it is reasonable and customary for the matter to be discussed by the President and Vice President. Do I see a possible Constitutional Crisis on the horizon?
hey blue, it's interesting reading, but it is from an email that has apparently been circulating around wall st., which is famous for, well, speculation. i sure do hope it's all true tho.
merry fitzmas, indeed!
My exact proposition I believe was that we should not confuse a stance of anti-gun with being soft on defense. Democrats will defend our nation "against all enemies" (as Richard Clarke wrote in his book of the same title) both foreign and domestic.
But you've still to refute my "Godfather" logic. When civil disputes come down to a fisticuffs, can we trust that the loser with the bloody lip or the broken nose will be honorable enough to accept defeat, or will that person go and get a gun or a knife and hide behind a bush somewhere and kill you when you're out playing catch with your son?
I'm not talking about cowardice here, because there is no such thing in the "real world:" there are winners and losers. So, if we were totally conservative and believed in being safe instead of sorry, we would have no choice but to either avoid confrontation or to kill anyone with who we would have a dispute so as to prevent them from feeling dishonored by their defeat and coming back and killing us when we're not looking.
This is the Bush Doctrine of "pre-emption": kill them before they have a chance to hide behind that bush and take you out. If this is supposed to be the model for our own "civil" society, then I am afraid, but then again, I've no compunction about defending myself; most Democrats don't mind killing the hell out of people to make sure that our families are safe.
We do have a problem with killing the hell out of innocent people (like Jerry Kilgore likes to do) because the logical conclusion is that ultimately, by the same logic, EVERYONE is "potentially" a threat, because someday, you may get in a conflict with them in which you will ultimately have to kill them to save yourself and your family.
This is the Bush Doctrine; this is pre-emption; this is the dissolution of civil society, and law and order.
In addition, our party favors gay marriage (for the record, I favor gay marriage), and that scares many WV Dems.
Actually, Frostie, the national party as a whole has never favored equal marriage rights in its platform. Some of the state Dem groups have gone out on a limb, like MA, and put equal marriage rights in their state party platforms.
That needed to be clarified because this party is not a big ol' "gay marriage" party.
Frostie, (and this is the last time I am addressing you)
Here you go again, sprouting mis-truths,(or maybe it is just your Strict Red State mentality), but
The simple fact is that the Democratic Party is anti-gun.
This is not true! You even Saw John Kerry out hunting, and Democats are NOT against guns. And Brady bill was no bandaid, he was Shot by a crazy person along with Reagan, who had no business with a gun! And if you think that because the Democrats want some restrictions on sale and manufacture of guns is an infringement on your rights, well I feel sorry for you, that you equate your Rights with such things as Uzzis, and kids buying guns, etc. So for you to keep reciting that the Democratic Party is Against guns is downright ignorant!
and this:
It also looks like you are taking lessons from other people here by taking one of my posts, which supports your argument, while leaving others out. If memory serves me correctly, Dom and I were discussing why WV, my home state, went for Bush twice. The simple fact is that our party has taken a polarizing position on God in government.
It hasn't occured to you and your WV friends, that the Democrats are following what the Forefathers set this country up to be - i.e. Separate in church and State? They knew the dangers because of where they came from, and so tried to keep it out. And if there IS a polarizing position, it is the one the republicans keep trying to shove down Americas throat, via that the Bible is the Book of Law and the land, and every citizen, regardless of race, or creed must follow it. My Jewish and Muslim and Hindu friends find that very offensive. So do I.
So just because your little state of WV is not happy with the Dems, do not use your Slant from that State, to come in here and use it as Slant to try and distort the Democratic Party on their own Blog ! I am in BLUE, BLUE, CT, where we see things as they really are. Nobody taking any guns, No religion argued either way, Civil Unions just passed 10-1st.
I have a feeling, my friend, you have not woken up to the fact that you Really are more Republican than Democrat and would be far more comfortable on the RNC blog.
And with this, I am thru arguing . That is not my purpose in coming to this blog.
Jacque, I don't remember where the call for money for Hacket came from. Does it make a difference? Does he only get a portion from the PACs? I will make sure I use his own site from now on.
BlueStateRebel,
The gun scare started over two things. First, president Ford was shot at by Squeaky Fromm. Folks started talking then about nuts getting hold of guns. Then Regan got his ass shot by that guy, and also he shot Brady. Brady begin campaigning for a law to do background checks on handguns after he recovered, and his wife beforehand. Then you had Charlton Heston saying we were going to take everyones guns because the Democrats backed Brady. Brady's own party wouldn't back him. Now folks, if you can't wait a few days to get a handgun, that tells me one thing, you don't deserve to have it. That wait gives a cooling off period to some hothead who would have got mad, went that day, bought a gun, and shot somebody. Allowing them to cool off, they may not follow through after they cool off. Plus, it gives time for a background check to find the nut cases out there. The thing is, the republicans took this and ran with it. They have been lying about this ever since saying we want to take all guns. Today, they think the young voters who didn't know what was going on through this time can be fooled, and evidently they are. If they would read some history before shooting off their mouthes, they'd know it's a flat lie by the GOP.
Incidentally it is this outrage that drives most opponents to demand that their representatives vote against confirmation of Bush judicial nominees, especially to the Supreme Court. Now the Republican fear machine was too strong to stop Roberts, like it was too strong to stop Scalia and Thomas. But it can stop further judges who will support a dissolution of our civil society through pre-emption.
If this is what Mr. Bush intends to throw at us in the nominee of Harriet Miers, then it would be foolhardy to support her nomination.
How do Democrats speak to the growing visibility of what might be described as the equivalent of the American Taliban while not degrading those with strong religious beliefs? The separation of church and state has been lost on the right, as they are now emboldened to push their beliefs onto others and indoctrinate all aspects of public policy and our laws. Suburban swing voters must be increasingly concerned about this trend. How do Democrats best address this issue?
Dunkling, I would advise you to read Thomas Paine and Reinhold Neibuhr and then make that same argument. Religion should have no place in politics, yet there can be a realistic politics that makes morality a central tenet, yet divorces religion from defining its policies.
PamB,
Matter of fact, Connecticut used to be, and probably still is one of the largest firearms manufacturers of any state. They had several companies there like S&W. It is Democrat!
{{{marsh}}}
have you checked out josh marshall? it's loaded with great information. the cafe has a post by Larry Johnson that rips Andrea Mitchell and points out EXPLICITLY the LIES.
Dunkling: the pubes will implode, and the people that voted for this crime family reign are SO not admitting it. BTW, i'm not at all frustrated tonight.
Merry Fitzmas!
Claudius writes: "Religion should have no place in politics." Yet it does and is used effectively by Republicans to promote their view of the world. Note the comments made this past week about Miers' religious beliefs and why they were made by Rove and Bush. If you haven't noticed, they may soon stack the Supreme Court with pepole supporting their religious world-view and with implications for the rest of us for decades to come.
Again, how do we express concern about this religious fanatical trend but not come across as anti-religion? How do we promote the notion of separation of church and state and why that is vital?
Posted by Dunkling on October 19, 2005 at 09:12 PM
I love people who follow the "true" teachings of Christ. But "fake Christians" who use religion to spread hate and steal money make me sick. Jesus said take care of the poor, don't chase after money, don't be stingy and greedy, a rich man will have a harder time going to heaven that a camel passing though the eye of a needle. Do Bush and the rest of the Republicans follow any of these teaching? Heck no they don't. They're all greedy liars, crooks and theives, they're not Christians.
I wonder, what would Republicans have said if Clinton had had told the nation that Ruth Bader Ginsburg was good for the Supreme Court because she was a good Jew?
The simple fact is that our party has taken a polarizing position on God in government.
BWAHAHAHA!!!!!!! When you say "Our" party you MUST mean the GOP.
Posted by BlueStateRebel on October 19, 2005 at 08:59 PM
The only constitutional crisis I see is the one of presidential pardons. As the Nixon/Ford example shows, there can be no grounds upon which to compell executive accountability other than to constrain the presidential pardon. Because as Ford demonstrated, as long as there is a "next" president, the "previous" president will ALWAYS be above the law.
This is no way to ensure "popular sovereignty" through our representatives in Congress. Besides, the constitution provides for the electoral college: the electors, usually congressional representatives, elect the president -- they ought to be able to have the ability to make sure he executes the will of the people and is accountable to Congress by making sure that the presidential pardon is limited.
As my earlier post showed in which I cited the NY Daily News story, an "anonymous senior White House official" claimed that whatever Rove did, it was in support of the president and "the president appreciates that" and it not likely to forget it.
In other words, if there are indictments for lying, conspiracy to lie, conspiracy to cover it up, and jeopardizing our national security for selfish economic interests, those who are charged will be pardoned by the president, and free to go on TV and radio -- like Gordon Liddy -- and continue to try to influence politics in this country as convicted, or at least, indicted felons.
This is the Government of the United States that we are proud of?? That our forefathers fought for?? No wonder when asked after the Constitutional convention what kind of government we had, Benjamin Franklin replied: "A republic -- if you can keep it."
Well, Americans, we've lost it. And the Republicans are responsible.
Frostie,
You still haven't given me the name of the person that you want for President Frostie or why?
You did let me know what you thought about the other suggestions put out there but that isn't the same. Who in the Democratic party speaks to your heart and makes you proud to call yourself a Democrat?
I'm not trying to figure out if anyone is "lying". I'm asking your opinion because you're a voter and by virtue of that, your opinion matters just as much as mine. That and the fact is I'm curious by nature and believe in learning as much as I can about as much as I can.
Democrats have lost state elections because they have been perceived to be anti-gun and anti-business. Both are not particularly good places to be when trying to forge winning coalitions. Reframe the discussion and stop taking positions that exclude so many voters!
{{{Fade}}}!!! good to see you!
i check out josh marshall every day. also don't go a day without visiting atrios.
{{{Jen}}}
bwa ha ha, indeed! Thomas Jefferson said it best:
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html
Dunkling: You're funny.
Domingo,
In my view, all they need to do is investagate Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell for fraud. They'd find it I'm sure. Once busted the folks who believed them would be brought into the light. Plus the republicans funding would be cut off, and several top republicans who were tied into the fraud would go to jail. That would be one of my top priorities if I had anything to do with it.
I dont want any church being envolved in politics, not vice-versa. I think any church who preaches as much as one breath about politics should loose their tax exempt status.
Hi All,
I posted the following last night and hoped to discuss this with others.
I was watching Cspan couple minutes ago and could not believe what I heard, ...with Dennis Kucinich D-Ohio questioning some of the Army inspector general on who is auditing the work of reconstruction in Iraq. This guy smiles and stated no one.
NO ONE is watching our $200,000,000,000.00+ dollars being spent in Iraq?
Mr. Kucinich asked if the contactors or pentagon procurement department knew if the infrastructure being repaired was due to war.
The Pentagon official laughed at him and stated he assures the Senator the money is spending wisely. The pointed to a new substation that was build with billions. But the pentagon procurement office never repaired the power line to hook up the substation. They laughed at him to tell him they are not determining where or which work is prioritized.
Billions going out the door on work that cannot be verified or prioritized and these Bush neocons are laughing at Dennis Kucinich’s effort to get answers on a very general audit.
Posted by HybridFuel on October 19, 2005 at 01:06 AM
Even though Pam is gone and I know everyone is arguing the gun topic, another clarification: civil unions in a VERY blue state like CT should be shameful when civil unions are NOT equal marriage rights.
The two are no where near the same...sorry to break the news.
It's hard to explain the whole reason why we should give a damn as a party about this without it sounding so simplistic to me: equality and democracy go hand in hand. Yet, we dice it and slice it and dissect it into comfortable categories.
For me, I guess it's hard to see how people get so flipped out on this, but they do.
During my walk I had a thought. It was brought on by the idea that our "Mr. Delay" has had problems with Ethics violations. We have a "3 strikes law" for criminals why don't we havve the same standards for our LEADERS? 3 violations should mean your out on your keister and not allowed back. If its good enough for the criminals it should be good enough for our "lawmakers".
I also was wondering who we have running in the House against the Savannah goober in the House who had an (R) after his name but didn't know he wasn't a Senator.
With respect to letshelpdean's absurd idea that the GOP needs little old me to figure out democratic strategy
posted by frostie earlier
You're right, Frostie. It was absurd of me to give you any credit. A feckless fart such as yourself is totally worthless. For once you are right.
This;
I dont want any church being envolved in politics, not vice-versa.
should have read;
I dont want any church being envolved in politics, nor vice-versa.
"Democrats have lost state elections because they have been perceived to be anti-gun and anti-business."
"Gun control" is a bogus issue. How do I know? Because for all the thunder and bluster the NRA made about "waiting periods" being the "slippery slope" to losing the second amendment, they said absolutely nothing when the government confiscated legally owned firearms from law-abiding citizens of New Orleans. The pro-gun crowd was deafeningly silent.
The NRA has proven to be nothing more than the gun-owning wing of the Republican party. Sadly, many good gun-owning Democrats have been persuaded by the conservative propaganda.
We ought to be counter-attacking by pointing this out.
I also want to thank everyone for their answer to my question early. I'm gonna do some more homework on some of the folks put out there.
It's hard for me to understand why anyone worries about who the "other" guy or gal is marrying. The arguments that gay marriage destroys the institution of marriage seem like a weak argument for discrimination. I've been married for over 12 years and if two gay people married it would do absolutely NOTHING to my marriage. That's because my marriage is not an agreement I entered into with my husband, God and the REST OF THE COUNTRY. My marriage is between me, my husband and God. The government has no business deciding in the matters of love.
Posted by Will_Matney on October 19, 2005 at 09:44 PM
Now you're making sense Will. They won't bitch about pro-life and the people of the United States will discontinue giving them tax breaks for molesting our children. Seems like a fair trade to me.
Dunkling-
I guess you could put the following argument to any topic (I think it's applicable to anything); however, I just happened to find it on a gay marriage site:
It basically comes down to tolerance and equality. Both are essential for meaningful democracy. Even if there were only two citizens in a country, those two people are going to have different ideas about something or other. In order for them both to live freely and peacefully they must learn that they cannot force their beliefs on each other.
There are some folks who take aim at the very idea of tolerance. I saw a bumper sticker a while back that said "Truth, not Tolerance" and had some crosses on it. While there do have to be some objective truths for democracy to function (ie. we must all be subject to the same laws for instance, and those laws must be enforced the same for all members of society), culture and religion are never going to be areas where there is universal agreement. Quite the opposite. This fact does not threaten democracy, it strengthens it.
Without equality for all in a society there is apartheid, not democracy. Equality means more than high flown rhetoric. It means that all in a society must have the same rights, and those rights are enforced the same for all. It is an unequal situation when the benefits afforded to married couples by society are denied to same sex couples.
http://www.contempl8.net/WHY%20Gay%20Marriage.htm
Basically, a good democracy has people with different points of view and allows them to live and let live. If one group is not hurting or infringing on the other, then democracy and equality is working. Apparently, for many in American society today, democracy and equality are NOT working. There have been many rights infringed on and people hurt by the far right religious extremists, not the other way around.
In my view, all they need to do is investigate Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell for fraud.
Posted by Will_Matney on October 19, 2005 at 09:39 PM
Hi Will,
What I do not understand is why these guys are not arrested? Both these guys have at different time’s advocated violence and overthrow of governments outside USA. There are laws against advocating violence in public and on public airwave. Freedom of speech does not protect these acts. Political differences is one thing, solicitation of murder on public airwave is another. I do not understand why the FCC does not revoke his license to broadcast. Instead FCC is focused on removal of obscenity that only they cannot define but know when they see it.
{{{marsh, fade, callie, christine, will, hybrid, everyone}}}
marsh, thanks for the kind words. (where do i send your check? ;)
fade, that's one of my favorites, thanks for that link.
That's because my marriage is not an agreement I entered into with my husband, God and the REST OF THE COUNTRY.
Wonderfully put, CB! Then why should the "rest of the country" decide on the validity or level of deserved rights of a relationship, right? THANKS!!
Hey Jen!! I tried to stay away, but we see how long that lasted! ;)
Claudius,
That was the very reason the Constitution seperated church and state. They new from experience how the Catholic church tried to come in and take over England. No where in the Bible does Jesus or anyone else thell us to be involved in politics, especially the church. Matter of fact, Jesus threw out the money changers from the temple that time. A government corrupted church was who had Jesus crucified. Nowhere in time has this been a good idea as it's been tried several times. The way I see it, the church shouldn't be involved in politics, and neither should the government in the church. Anytime this happens one or the other should be dealt with. This includes political contributions from the groups like the Christian Coalition.
Jen: your blog is awesome! Callie: good to see you!
santorum (google him for giggles) is down 16 points...ha!
http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/101905/casey.html
HybridFuel,
They have the GOP in their back pockets. They know the corruption in the GOP and that's why the GOP shields those churches. They have funneled millions of dollars into the GOP's campaigns which in turn allow them to commit fraud and other acts without repremand. If you remember, tehy had stated to investagate all these years ago when they busted Jim and Tammy Faye Baker. Jimmy Swaggert was busted with prostitutes 3-4 times, and he would say Oral roberts saved him each time. Finally it got so rediculous, the folks left the church, and Jerry and Pat took over. This the same with PTL when Jim Baker was being led out in cuffs for fraud. Now that's the moral majority for you. If it were up to me, you'd see them being indicted ASAP!
Good to see you too, fade! Long time, huh?
Will-
You make excellent points and all good reasons for separating church and state. Not that I ever think that will completely happen because I feel like this is the great struggle that plagues all cultures (i.e. to keep religious power at bay).
This isn't a bad thing. History tells us that religious power should be controlled. Since when were true Christians supposed to care about power anyway? Besides what's worse than a fundamentalist, or someone with a god complex, on a power trip? I don't know. The worst was Hitler and I don't want to imagine anything worse than that.
merci boucoup, fade!
hi Cin!
husband is calling, damn it, bbl
oh, yeah. rall is brill, and he can write too
teddy boy!
I just joined a site called GOP.com
These folks actually have it set up where they GIVE you 25 folks to call in Virginia to ask if they will support Jerry Kilgore. They also give you your phone script. It's so organized it's scary. Folks check out this site. We should have a DNC equivalent.
CalCin, What did you want to know about the election last night? How the party advises us to vote?
Good evening, all.
Again, how do we express concern about this religious fanatical trend but not come across as anti-religion? How do we promote the notion of separation of church and state and why that is vital?
Posted by Dunkling on October 19, 2005 at 09:26 PM
Dunkling, you let other church leaders challenge their motives...question their truth intent. The leaders of the Christian Right are charlatans. They are out for money and power...not interested in the least about saving souls or they would have saved their own long ago by getting out of the "regliion for profit" business.
Christianity is a simple idea; it doesn't need mega churches or television shows to sell it's premise. Let the members of these organizations come to their own realization that these "redemption mills" are not furthering anything but the careers of their leaders.
Besides, the Republicans have become so corrupt they will probably bring down the Falwells and Robertsons with them.
Why should we care if they think we are anti-religion...we aren't, and God knows it. Let them follow their false prophets and see where it leads them. I think many in the Religious Right secretly want to be the Chosen Ones/Hebrews but are too afraid to convert...lucky for the Jews.
Those Left Behind books are a clear indication that they would rather not get involved with the messy "take care of each other" part of Christianity. They're selling an easy way out just like the 700 Club. Salvation just isn't that easy....buy a self-help tape or tithe the right amount and you are on the road to redemption?
The best way to stop the argument is not to let them draw you into it.
Oh and yes. I was wondering about the ahnold's props. I figured you may know. I know, I could do some research but I wanted to ask you. (save me some time)
Domingo, another thing. We vote absentee. We tend to get the "how to vote" by the Dems after we have voted (usually very close to election day).
Good Evening Everybody!
This has a familiar ring . . . "What did the President know? And when did he know it?"
Click Here
Sandy-
My very simple response to any of those screaming christians is "I don't find God inside four walls but inside me."
hi cin!
anyone listening to air america? astros are leading 4-1 over the cardinals in the fifth...
media matters has a nice collection of limbaugh lies about liberals on their site today. [Click on my name]
lies are not "spin"--they're LIES! and we can thank ronnie raygun for the dismantling of the fcc process that he began which begat the dismal state of "fairness" and media accountability we have today.
CB
I promised you two things so you are first. To be honest, I haven't given much thought to 08. With that said, I am open to any conservative democrat who might run. I am also open to a few individuals who wont run again. I was a big fan of Bob Kerry although he and I probably disagree 35% of the time. I used to be a big fan of Sen. Breaux and Cambell (too bad Breaux retired and Cambell jumped ship to the GOP). I know that is not what you are looking for. But is has put spark under my butt to start looking again. To be honest I have been too busy with local affairs, work, and state politics and haven't paid that much attention to possible 08 contenders.
Frostie
Oh, BTW, what do you guys know about the Republican Youth Majority?
As some of you may know, I work at a college and I received an announcement about this group looking for interns and they were seeking the next generation of Republican leadership that was "pro-choice" and "pro-environment."
Those two things just seemed soooooo un-Republican.
I think everyone should go get there 25 names so we can "Help Jerry" (lose).
The quick answer is no on the first four and yes on the last two, (79 and 80). I got an E-mail from the party last week explaining the whole thing. It's kind of long with no link. I'll take another look at it.
Thanks Domingo. I appreciate it. It's a little frustrating that the literature isn't mailed to us unitl after we have voted. My husband says that's b/c people who are liberals like us and vote absentee are likely to vote the way they want us to anyway and so the focus is on those people who vote on election day. I'm not sure I made sense but thak you.
Exile,
Don't get me wrong though, all churches aren't this way. I for a fact know the Church of Christ isn't as I belong to it. They never say who you should vote for. Neither do they have a figurehead or a hierarchy past the elders in the church. The main ones doing this is the TV evangelists who say they can save you by just praying with them over the air, and send in some money! Those are the Jerry Falwells, Pat Robertsons, and Benny Hins. The ones you see smacking folks one the forhead and saying they're healed, when in fact their shills planted in the audience. When you see a church that keeps going up to a figure head and is run like a big company, watch out because they are the frauds. When they preach things like being saved without being baptized, you know their wrong because the Bible does NOT say this in any form. I remember one they busted, but cant think of his name right off. He was grey haired some, and always kept a haircut like a pompador sort of. He would tell folks to send in money in an envelope which you had to mark outside wheather cash was inside or not. And that either way he would pray for each one no matter if they could send money or not. Well an inside investagation revealed that no prayer was done for anyone, and the ones that wasn't marked as having cash went directly in the trash. The ones that had money were opened, and they went in the trash, not one read, just the cash taken!
I think religion should be a very personal thing, so am very suspicious of anyone who shouts Christianity (or Judaism or Islam) at me. Not a problem with Buddhists, who never shout.
I don't for a moment subscribe to the image of the bony-fingered, white bearded, angry old white god of the Old Testament (or the Sistine Chapel). When I try to visualize God, she comes out as a middle-aged, bemused and amused person, more in the image of Cher, or a younger Suzanne Pleshette.
Is anyone else reeling from the idea that I can sign into the site and become a VOLUNTEER for the party within an hour when it took me months to be able to FIGURE OUT how to volunteer for this party in my local area.
merde! it's beaucoup, Jen. Three years of French, down la toilette.
hi {{Paul}}!
On religion and politics, I admired Howard Dean greatly for the first 2/3 of his campaign. He never mentioned it. Then someone convinced him he had to bring in religion, and he did, very clumsily. That took a bit of th shine off so far as I was concerned.
CB, I hate to admit this, but I think the GOP is more organized than the Dems. I don't like what they do, but they do get to their base and some.
CB, if we set up something like that on our own site, i'd do it. going there, guerilla marketing, would be against my moral code.
too rovian...but they're organized and good at canned messages.
CB
Question 2 (actually your first question) wanted to know why I voted against Kerry. I have already posted this once and have been blasted as a traitor but here goes again. For me, the most important issue during the last election was the Supreme Court, and to some extent the federal judiciary. I voted for Bush because I didnt' want Kerry to appoint any liberal judges to the Bench (like those currently in the 9th Circuit).
I am a moderate constructionist when it comes to constitutional law (somewhat like O'Conner). I also happen to believe in the "states rights argument."
Odds are that if Kerry had won, he would have appointed a liberal judge, in the mold of Ginsburg, who is clearly not an advocate of the states rights approach and who legislates from the bench (still working on your list of decisions).
The more liberal justices on the Court view the constitution as a living, breathing, document that changes by itself over time. I dont in most cases.
Justice Ginsburg and friends have no problem using the commerce clause to justify fixing society's problems, even if the problems dont involve commerce. I do have a problem using the commerce clause to fix everything and wanted to make sure that a moderate to conservative justice was appointed.
In addition, I have never been a fan of Kerry from the very beginning. In my opinion he is too liberal. He also couldn't make up his mind about the war. I dont care what position you chose but make a choice and stick with it.
He also voted against the first Iraq war which was just stupid. Finally, I must have seen Kerry on the Senate floor a million times and each and every time he irritated me to death. I could probably come up with some other reasons but I think you get my point. I didn't vote against the democratic party, I voted against Kerry. Sorry
Frostie
God may forgive those greedy, bigotted, bloodsuckers who voted for George W. Bush. I will not.
just watched a bit of Destination America on PBS about people leaving their countries for America due to fascism. Arturo Toscanini was the man! Would not bow down to Il Duce, when told he must conduct the fascist national anthem, Genevizza or something like that, he said no and the black shirts beat him up. He would not conduct in Italy under fascist rule. He was asked to conduct by Hitler but would not. He said he would not compromise with evil. I wish I could find this quote online where he spoke about how he loves and hates his country because of the men who are running it. It could be said about US today.
Posted by Flagjohn on October 19, 2005 at 10:27 PM
That would explain why gay men are so at peace with God, I guess. She's really Cher!
The following is a transcript of talk given by Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff to Colin Powell until last January. Mike Malloy mentioned this piece from Financial Times a few minutes ago. Worth a peek...
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c925a686-40f4-11da-b3f9-00000e2511c8.html
Jen-
The irony is that many are deciding to leave the US because they can say the same things about it. Strangely enough for some of the same countries people used to run away from in order to come to the US.
Strange days indeed.
Fascists are ALWAYS more efficient and organized than free thinking liberals. Unfortunately. They are very efficient at killing too which is one of many things I'm glad we don't want to compete with them in.
Your entitled to your opinion. You still haven't cited cases that Ginsburg decided that were decidedly "liberal" and effect you.
Personally when I see Senator Kerry I see a good man that is a horrible speaker. He is a man who dedicated himself to public service from the get go. First in the military and then as a politician. His legislation to try to get every child health care isn't going to get him millions of dollars in lobbyist money. Heck kids don't even get to vote. He's doing it because he believes it's the right thing. Instead of speaking out how "we have a responsibility to protect the weak and vulnerable"(Bush statement at anti abortion rally) he acts to actually protect the weak and vulnerable that are here today. As a veteran, I know how hard it is to go against the grain and speak out when those above you are doing something wrong. I admire Kerry that he did that when it probably would have been easier to lay low and just collect glowing praise from his superiors. he did that because he's a man that believes in principles. My only wish is that he could have found a way to connect with the average voter because i believe he would have been a good President.
In response to the position that the Dem party is not antigun.
I disagree. People throw the term assault rifle around like yesterday's newspaper, yet they fail to define what an assault rifle is.
Second, the Brady bill was a bandaid over a gunshot wound (no pun intended). More people were killed by knives and clubs than by the so called assault weapons on the banned list. Hell, Clinton even went duck hunting with one of the guns on that list (admittedly the one on the list had a few cosmetic changes but was essentially the same shotgun).
The purpose of the second amendment, as stated by its author, was so that ordinary citizens could protect themselves from tyranny in government. It is an individual right and does not apply to the national guard.
I am not going to comment on Kerry's photo op while hunting other than to say that everybody knew that it was a scripted photo op designed to convince gun owners in rural states that Kerry wasn't going to take their guns. Unfortunately it didn't work.
I agree with whoever stated earlier that this is an explosive issue that hurts dems (ask Daschle about it some time).
Gun control laws have never worked and have only succeded in taking guns from law abiding citizens. As for the NRA not protesting the gun confisctions in LA, I strongly suggest that you take a look at the NRA website which proves otherwise.
Frostie
Frostie-
All I can do is shake my head at this. Not a living, breathing document??? WOW!!! That's scary and any world where a constitution of rights does not change is frightening. Actually, it's fascists.
CB
Working on your list but it is on my computer at work. I kept my promise and responded to your other questions, I just need a little more time to get my list together.
Its coming, I promise.
Fascists are ALWAYS more efficient and organized than free thinking liberals. Unfortunately. They are very efficient at killing too which is one of many things I'm glad we don't want to compete with them in.
Posted by Jen on October 19, 2005 at 10:50 PM
Well said, but I'm too paranoid to print it out, Jen! That article is scary!
Fade, I read about the site at Daily Kos. The only way i could read the information I wanted was by signing up. I won't make the calls but I do believe that we should know what we are up against. We should have a similar way to reach our demographic. It's smart and efficient. Too bad they don't run the government as well as they do the precincts. That much has been obvious in the past few years.
As for the NRA not protesting the gun confisctions in LA, I strongly suggest that you take a look at the NRA website which proves otherwise.
I remember when they took the guns away and I asked aloud where the NRA were. I waited and they were many days late and many dollars short. There's a reason no one knows about it and they have to go look it up on their site. They purposely didn't make a stink ala Charlton on his steed like they do when a high school massacre happens. They don't want to go against Bush.
OK, here you Cin, it's no on the first six, they're the Repug BS lies to rip off the working folks or to take power away from the state congress give Arnold "the Nazi lover" even more power. He's trying to pull a fast one. And I've seen the ads on TV already and those Repub bastards are lying their asses off, both about their propositions and ours. What else is new? To get people to go for their ideolgy they have to fool them into thinking it's something else everytime. Then like I said, "yes" on the last two, (79 and 80), those are from our side.
Special Election
Downloads
I don't know about Kerry being TOO liberal either. From my perspective, he was quite conservative, but I guess he had proposals that directly affected my rights so that's conservative to me. Liberals tend to want to expand not restrict rights so it's hard for me to see it any other way.
Posted by CBwaltz on October 19, 2005 at 10:51 PM
I agree with you. Oh, oh I wish it were President Kerry.
Blue,
I am not saying that dems dont own guns. I am a dem and own lots of guns. Hell, Kentucky and WV virtually shut down during deer season. All I am saying is that our party has a lousy track record when it comes to supporting the second amendment. There are lots of senate dems who want to tax ammo and ban all semi-automatic rifles. In rural states, postions like that kill dems.
With respect to Illinois, didn't the good mayor of Chicago file a lawsuit against the gun industy? How is that gun friendly.
The idea that Kerry is anti gun is ludicrous. There is no way to enter the military and be anti gun. You have to be able to carry a WEAPON(which is a gun) while in the military. Furthermore I don't find it a stretch that a person that was in the military would enjoy hunting at all.
After seeing Iraq you don't truly believe the idea that you having an assault weapon will make you the equivalent to the might of the US military should the government get tyrannical do you? I always find this argument the most laughable. Almost everyone in Iraq has a gun but the tanks and bombs seem to trump those guns when it comes to actual combat.
Tom Delay arrest warrant in pdf:
http://democraticleader.house.gov/pdf/Delay.pdf
I suggest using it for gift wrap, or a lovely placemat collection. It would look stunning with a bright orange tablecloth...mmmm
merry fitzmas and an EARLy happy new year...
bye {{Cin}}
They're not wild about Harry...but she's just wild about G.
Miers Is Asked to Redo Reply to Questions
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK 10:49 PM ET
The bipartisan Senate panel leaders called Harriet E. Miers's answers "inadequate," "insufficient" and "insulting."
Posted by CBwaltz on October 19, 2005 at 10:51 PM
I could not agree with you more! When you look at the mess that this nation is in today, we know that John Kerry would at least be working to solve the problems instead of adding to them. I am sick and tired of the ignorance and denial that is the trademark of Bush supporters. John Kerry's predictions about the Iraq war have come to pass. Where the Hell are the "Swiftboat Veterans for Truth" now? As we see the rampant corruption of this administration, it amazes me that the electorate was so collectively stupid that they didn't see what Bush would bring. That sounds rather condescending, but I have to be honest with myself. All of those idiots who lined up in lockstep behind Bush have marched right off the cliff with him. In the coming weeks, we will see indictments, perhaps even a resignation. And still, they spew the ignoraance fueled neocon vitriolic crap. This is what the country asked for, and this is what the country got. Are they happy now??
Faux frosty, "our party"?
celebrating with us, are you?
if they don't fingerprint and mugshot the bug man, i'm going to be royally pissed. it's a felony for chrissakes.
exactly Christine, they'll have taken all our guns away beforehand, in the name of protecting us. and the good little sheep will ba-a-a-ow down and do so.
big surprise...
Senate Again Fails to Raise Minimum Wage
WASHINGTON - Senate proposals to raise the minimum wage were rejected Wednesday, making it unlikely that the lowest allowable wage, $5.15 an hour since 1997, will rise in the foreseeable future.
A labor-backed measure by Sen. Edward Kennedy (news, bio, voting record) would have raised the minimum to $6.25 over an 18-month period. A Republican counterproposal would have combined the same $1.10 increase with various breaks and exemptions for small businesses.
The Kennedy amendment to a spending bill went down 51-47, and the GOP alternative 57-42. Under a Senate agreement, they would have needed 60 votes for approval.
Kennedy, D-Mass., said Hurricane Katrina demonstrated the depth of poverty in the country and he pointed out that a single parent with two children working a minimum wage earns $10,700 a year, $4,500 below the poverty line.
Hola, all!!
On DeLay? I want a perp walk! Was there a perp walk? Oh, pretty please??
U.S. Gives Florida a Sweeping Right to Curb Medicaid
By ROBERT PEAR
Published: October 20, 2005
WASHINGTON, Oct. 19 - The Bush administration approved a sweeping Medicaid plan for Florida on Wednesday that limits spending for many of the 2.2 million beneficiaries there and gives private health plans new freedom to limit benefits.
The Florida program, likely to be a model for many other states, shifts from the traditional Medicaid "defined benefit" plan to a "defined contribution" plan, under which the state sets a ceiling on spending for each recipient.
Compassion? for whom? sure as shooting it ain't the little guy.
Jen
I am a democrat, get used to it. Second, the NRA did protest the gun confiscations in NO. If memory serves me correctly, and it does, the chief of police in NO is the one who decided to take the guns, not Bush.
Some folks said Kerry didn't know what he was talking about and lying about our soldiers in Viet Nam. Here's a quote from Wikipedia for anyone who thing Kerry lied to congress in hearings right after the war,
Quote;
The morality of U.S. conduct of the war continued to be a political issue under the Nixon Presidency. In 1969, American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh exposed the My Lai massacre and its cover-up, for which he received the Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. It came to light that Lt. William Calley, a platoon leader in Vietnam, had led a massacre of several hundred Vietnamese civilians, including women, babies, and the elderly, at My Lai a year before. The massacre was only stopped after three American soldiers (Glenn Andreotta, Lawrence Colburn and Hugh Thompson, Jr.) noticed the carnage from their helicopter and intervened to prevent their fellow Americans from killing any more civilians. Calley was given a life sentence after his court-martial in 1970, but was later pardoned by President Nixon. Cover-ups may have happened in other cases, as contended in the Pulitzer Prize-winning article series about the Tiger Force by the Toledo Blade in 2003.
In 1970, Prince Sihanouk was deposed by Lon Nol in Cambodia, who became the chief of state. The Khmer Rouge guerillas with North Vietnamese backing began to attack the new regime. Nixon ordered a military incursion into Cambodia in order to destroy NLF sanctuaries bordering on South Vietnam and protect the fragile Cambodian government. This action prompted even more protests on American college campuses. Several students were shot and killed by National Guard troops during demonstrations at Kent State.
End Quote.
Link;
Fade,
I was probably a dem long before you were and it is our party, even though we disagree on some issues
night {{Callie}}
hola {{Rose}} Say has anybody seen my sweet gypsy...
he turns himself in tomorrow, i want a perp walk too!!!
We don't tax ammo? Or do you mean add extra tax on it? Both make sense to me. The money should go to ATF. We have to have a whole department because of Alcohol, Tobacco, and FIREARMS. Alcohol gets more of a tax, so does tobacco why should the firearms part be exempt?
Jen, turns himself in? Oh, that's no fun! I want to see the cops head up to the hill with cuffs and drag him away in front of all of his buddies!
Dang!!
Shoot I missed Callie...Good Night.
Not surprising that Rice declined on Wednesday to rule out American forces still being needed in
Iraq a decade from now.
marsh,
we should have it on the ballots in the red states the same way they did gay marriage.
UGH! This Louis Freeh makes me want to hurl!! He's evil, I tell ya!!
I think there is a difference between anti gun and supporting responsible gun ownership and listening to your police enforcement.
Frostie black or white if she was the candidate we'd bury her with the "shopping while New Orleans floods" story or the "mushroom cloud" story all the lies and mishaps she's totally in the middle of it - she won't survive after the hailstorm of bad press we'd throw at her. I'd give up dinner all week to help pay for those commercials. As I think MILLIONS of Democrats would....RICE is the EVIL MOUTHPIECE
Posted by Dawnelle on October 19, 2005 at 01:05
And let's not forget the famous, "Nobody could have foreseen the use of aircraft as missiles". There was a report stating that's exactly what al Qaeda was planing and as National Security Adviser, it was her job to stop it. She's as much of a moron as Junior is. They're all incompetent hacks.
Frostie, call yourself whatever you like, makes no difference to me.
And I don't care who took their guns, it was wrong. And the NRA may have made some weak protest after the fact just so they could say they did, but it was lame. I personally don't trust Nagin as far as I can throw him. He is another one who called himself a democrat to get the vote but doesn't act like one.
I know Rose, me too. I want them to have to shove him in the cruiser and accidentally hit his helmet haired head on the car. hehe
CB
Two points.
I agree, it is not a stretch of the imagination to think that Kerry might enjoy hunting. He may. But that photo op was a staged event designed to placate gun owners in OH, PA, WV, and KY. Dem strategist remembered what happened to Gore in these states and tried to prevent a repeat. As for being anti gun, his record in the senate proves that he is anti gun.
Second. I am sure the taliban who defeated the russian army would disagree with your position that ordinary citizens cant defend themselves. In fact, old Gorby himself said that one of the main reasons why Russian, sorry, the Soviet Union, never attacked the US was because everybody owns a gun and it would have been a military nightmare.
Frostie
Jen, turns himself in? Oh, that's no fun! I want to see the cops head up to the hill with cuffs and drag him away in front of all of his buddies!
Dang!!
Posted by RoseZ on October 19, 2005 at 11:17 PM
----------------------
I'd like to have been the cop to put him in the car if they had arrested him. Ooops, watch and dont bump you head! BAM!
I mean, Bush calls himself a man of God but that doesn't make him one.
frosty,
i first voted dem in 1972--and republican lite is not dem.
it wasn't G*d, guns, or that kerry wasn't good enough. if you were talking trash about rush i might be inclined to see you in another light.
i'm too excited over the warrant and indictments to dwell on it. whatever blows your skirt up!
Freeh is a total shill. Lying SOS.
Sogni d'oro, {{Paolo!}}
Will, looks like we think alike! lol
Jen,
I remember that night on here right after Katrina, and was when Nagin started to kiss up to Bush after all he had said. That was the night I went and read about him switching politics right before he was elected to a Democrat and posted it here. We all had our eyes opened then. Another turn coat, all Nagin is.
Gorby thought we all had guns? Shows what good propaganda will do when owning a gun is not a requirement here in the US.
I repeat again. Just about everyone in Iraq has a gun(and I'm not talking 45's either). How well are those guns doing up against those bombs and tanks we have?
CB
Taxing ammo, or adding taxes on ammo would affect poor gun owners all over the country.
Jen, we finally agree on something. Taking NO's resident's guns was wrong and never should have happened.
With respect to reasonable gun control, define reasonable. Study after study has shown that gun control laws dont work and never will. With that said, that doesn't mean that anybody can own a gun.
I personally have no problem with people being required to pass a gun safety class. It is required by law in most states. People seeking a carry permit should be required to take a class. I even dont have a problem with instant background checks.
I do have a problem with cosmetic bans on weapons rarely used in crimes. Government gun owner lists. Taxing ammo. Limited purchases.
I hate it when Jon Stewart has pugs on. Yesterday was O'Lielly. Now Freeh. UGH!!
I don't like Nagin, either. He gives me the creeps. And I think he's trying to get people back in there to make himself look good. He has pissed off an awful lot of NOLA citizens.
You don't bring people back when there are no stores, no food, no water, no electricity and what is probably a shitload of bacteria all over the place!!
hi rose,
wouldn't a lovely mug shot of the bugman be a nice start?
the arrest warrant could be pasted onto a recycled cardboard cereal box, montage fashion, for a chic frame in which to place the photo. i'm betting that photo of the hammer at the cop shop will be on raw story by ten p.m. tomorrow...
Click on my name for the warrant.
In the false glow of their delusions, Republicans truly believed that Condoleezza Rice was the ultimate political asset – a Black woman who could by her presence wash them clean of racist stench, and then perform the same ablution the next day, and the next. Rice made it easy for the super-privileged to love themselves. Unlike coy Colin Powell, Rice did not bargain or seek her own space, but settled into the very fabric of Bushness. In so doing, however, Rice lost all power of personal agency. Having surrendered everything to the Bushes, her Blackness gradually lost its value as a cloak for her patrons’ racism. The affirmative action opinions of a loyal Black servant carry little weight, as Rice discovered in January of last year when Colin Powell’s pronouncements on the subject totally eclipsed her own. Her benefactors noticed that, too. That’s when the talk of high office, stopped.
But Rice is brilliant, we were told. Millions of Black people fervently wished that were true, that Bush’s tenure would at least provide an icon or role model or two, as a consolation prize. Then the esteemed Dr. Rice revealed that she is as stupid as anyone in the White House – with the possible exception of George. "I don't think anybody could have predicted ... that they would try to use an airplane as a missile," said the National Security Advisor in the spring of 2002, when Congress finally began delving into how 9/11 could have happened.
Two years later, even Fox news viewers know that al-Qaida’s martyrdom-seekers talked and plotted about little else than using airplanes as weapons against the United States in the years and months before 9/11 – facts known at the time even to serious newspaper readers as well as the world’s intelligence services. Rice marinates in the putrid stew, and even the helping hands of the 9/11 Commissioners – who have repeatedly said they are not seeking to assign blame to anyone – cannot save the last threads of her reputation as an intellect. Politically, Rice is burnt.
And, thanks to former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill and others, we know that Rice and the rest of the oil-slicks at the White House chose to spend their pre-9/11 quality time studying petro-maps of Iraq.
Rice, Colin Powell and a cellblock full of Bush Pirates deserve to be tried for the highest crimes yet delineated by mankind.
more at...Black Commentator
Look who's talking JEN!
Rose: Well at least we get to watch Colbert now.
I would love to stay and chat but my loving wife cant understand why I continue to come to this site and and she puts it, waste my time arguing with you all. I tell her its because I care at which point she flips me off.
with that said, Fade you got me beat. You were a dem before me. With respect to being Republican lite--I dont think so. And guns did kill Gore and Kerry in WV.
As for bashing Rush, I dont listen to that pill popping fat man. Happy.
Hiya Fade,
Yes, I saw the warrant. That's why I brought up the perp walk earlier. I haven't seen any of this arrest on MSM. Maybe Olberman covered it.
I want one of those cereal boxes! I can picture it!! LOL!
If they are that poor then they can sell their guns. ATF should be paid for by alcohol tobacco and taxes for firearms and firearms related expenses.
Lizzy, I'm not crazy about Colbert. I watch it until 11:35 and then switch to Leno or Letterman -- depending on who the guests are.
Condoleezza Rice's Credibility Gap
A point-by-point analysis of how one of America's top national security officials has a severe problem with the truth.
CLAIM: "I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile." – National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, 5/16/02
FACT: On August 6, 2001, the President personally "received a one-and-a-half page briefing advising him that Osama bin Laden was capable of a major strike against the US, and that the plot could include the hijacking of an American airplane." In July 2001, the Administration was also told that terrorists had explored using airplanes as missiles. [Source: NBC, 9/10/02; LA Times, 9/27/01]
CLAIM: In May 2002, Rice held a press conference to defend the Administration from new revelations that the President had been explicitly warned about an al Qaeda threat to airlines in August 2001. She "suggested that Bush had requested the briefing because of his keen concern about elevated terrorist threat levels that summer." [Source: Washington Post, 3/25/04]
FACT: According to the CIA, the briefing "was not requested by President Bush." As commissioner Richard Ben-Veniste disclosed, "the CIA informed the panel that the author of the briefing does not recall such a request from Bush and that the idea to compile the briefing came from within the CIA." [Source: Washington Post, 3/25/04]
CLAIM: "In June and July when the threat spikes were so high…we were at battle stations." – National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, 3/22/04
FACT: "Documents indicate that before Sept. 11, Ashcroft did not give terrorism top billing in his strategic plans for the Justice Department, which includes the FBI. A draft of Ashcroft's 'Strategic Plan' from Aug. 9, 2001, does not put fighting terrorism as one of the department's seven goals, ranking it as a sub-goal beneath gun violence and drugs. By contrast, in April 2000, Ashcroft's predecessor, Janet Reno, called terrorism 'the most challenging threat in the criminal justice area.'" Meanwhile, the Bush Administration decided to terminate "a highly classified program to monitor Al Qaeda suspects in the United States." [Source: Washington Post, 3/22/04; Newsweek, 3/21/04]
CLAIM: "The fact of the matter is [that] the administration focused on this before 9/11." – National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, 3/22/04
FACT: President Bush and Vice President Cheney's counterterrorism task force, which was created in May, never convened one single meeting. The President himself admitted that "I didn't feel the sense of urgency" about terrorism before 9/11. [Source: Washington Post, 1/20/02; Bob Woodward's "Bush at War"]
more at... Common Dreams
Frist couldn't even balance his Senate campaign budget and he wants to be President? I think not.
Here's an oldie but a goodie about Jimmy Swaggert and others. Read the whole thing, it's worth it.
Rose,
Louie never could get in to see Clinton...and it pissed him off. He's a jerk, incompetent and there is a nice piece about his resignation if you click on my name.
Astros are going to the Series.
I wonder what it is "he cares" so much about. Telling us how wrong we all are about everything?
Republicans are famous from shifting the conversation from issues that are truly important, like health care, fiscal responsibility, environmental responsiblity, energy independence, etc. to hot-button issues like gun control.
Time for bed folks. c ya tomorrow. (visions of indictments dancing in my head)
Fade, I didn't know that about Freeh. Will click on the link now. Thanks.
Goodnight, Frosty. Say hi to your wife from me. AND, thank you for not discussing abortion.
Schube, where are you? I'm falling asleep at the keyboard.
Merry Fitzmas to all, and to all a good night.
really domingo! lol he cares about all the attention we give him and how he likes to put up his "Dem cred" against larry and others here. eyes rolling.
Not only that, but he says he's a "Conservative Democrat". Then to prove he's a Dem he says, "Hey, I like burning the flag, I like gays to get married". This is everything Conservative Democrats and Independants hate about our party. He's full of it.
Posted by Domingo on October 19, 2005 at 11:42 PM
Interesting. More so when you add in the fact that the military was engaged in somewhere between 3 and 5 military operations/simulations specifically to address the possibility of airplanes flying into buildings. Indeed, one was happening on 9/11.
Frostie, a skunk can call itself a fox...dosn't make it so.
If you walk like a duck...there is no mistaking your 'quack' part...I just don't see how you're anything but a ...yellow bellied sapsucker.
You just are;D
Forgive if this has been posted. Didn't read much of the blog today.
Powell will not speak out, but one of his aides has.
The comments, made at the New America Foundation, a Washington think-tank, were the harshest attack on the administration by a former senior official since criticisms by Richard Clarke, former White House terrorism czar, and Paul O'Neill, former Treasury secretary, early last year.
Mr Wilkerson said his decision to go public had led to a personal falling out with Mr Powell, whom he served for 16 years at the Pentagon and the State Department.
“He's not happy with my speaking out because, and I admire this in him, he is the world's most loyal soldier."
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afdb7b0c-40f3-11da-b3f9-00000e2511c8.html
exactly Dom. night fade and christine.
hi Emily! I don't think I've seen your name here before? Welcome!
seems like the republicans and the way they are trying to push thru as much crap as possible as their credibility sinks in the west is analogous to those super market contests where the winners get five minutes to fill their basket with as much stuff as possible before the buzzer goes off.
driving up the taconic parkway in new york tonite i picked up an actual left wing talk show on am (1080?)from pittsburgh and the guy and his guest were discussing how this repub piece of legislation backed by chambers of commerce and the manufactures association got shot down. it would have made it illegal for states to set their own minimum wage above that of the feds...also any company with a gross yearly buisness under like twenty million would not have to do the normal reporting paperwork to the feds on stuff like their pension package or of informing workers of hazardous work areas so they would wear masks,etc. if the offenders got caught out of compliance with some regulation there would be no penalty or sanction for the first offense...this is about osha and so on...so i do think these swine will grab all they can on the way down and need to be scrutinized and sand bagged where ever possible.
hi!
Taconic Parkway? I went to some park off of there a couple of years ago. It was a Xerox business function.
We hit some outlets relatively nearby on the way home.
Boy, it doesn't take long for the brain to go to mush!!
Folks,
The one evangelist I mentioned above about throwing out the envelopes was Robert Tilton. Below is a link to a webpage about him. You'll recognize him when you see his pic if your old enough to have seen it happen.
hi gregg! night larry!
good news
Drug Effective Against Early Breast Cancer
Frist couldn't even balance his Senate campaign budget and he wants to be President? I think not.
Posted by CBwaltz on October 19, 2005 at 11:43 PM
He was finally able to balance things out...and now we know how.
Frist Donated to Campaign After HCA Sale
WASHINGTON - Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist paid $72,012 from his own pocket to his 2000 re-election campaign fund in August, two months after he was notified that trustees had sold millions of dollars of his stock in HCA Inc., the hospital chain founded by his father and brother.
That Aug. 30 payment was disclosed in
Federal Election Commission filings last Friday. The documents also show the campaign fund on the same day paid off a $349,107 outstanding loan from U.S. Bank Corp.
Both transactions enabled the Tennessee Republican to close the Senate campaign fund in anticipation of his retirement from the Senate next year and a possible run for the White House in 2008.
Frist has come under scrutiny from federal prosecutors and the
Securities and Exchange Commission following the sale of his HCA stock. The sales were completed by July 1, near the stock's 52-week peak and two weeks before share prices fell 9 percent.
The U.S. Bank Corp. loan originally was taken to repay Frist some of the $1 million of his personal fortune he put into his initial 1994 campaign for the Senate.
LOL, Greg!! Yes, I remember the outlets. I don't remember the town where the park was. I only remember the picnic sucked. Don't remember the town the outlets were in either.
I guess it doesn't matter.
the pooch is six months now and its fun to take her out for a game of stick late at night when the moon is full and the sky is clear. her normally wild eyes really light up and spin in her head. she whips through the brush and trees in search of the thrown stick like a dolphin feeding on a school of fish. she tends to stay nearby and not try to visit the neighbor who has 11 cats and a big friendly male belgian shepard and the noise she makes in the night air slowly get one two, then all the hounds in the area barking away.
Hey Marsh! Loved your post about Cheney earlier. It could be funny if McCain got in there. It would throw Dubya for a loop!! Leno made a joke or two about that on the show tonight.
I was disappointed to learn it was just rumor through email, though.
*waving back Marsh*
and good evening Greg, you are enduring flame of hope.
Remember that "MSimon" guy that was in here about a week ago talking all that hardcore Right Wing stuff, but who kept making a fuss about legalizing marijuana? Mike Malloy on Air America calls Libertarians, "Bi-sexual, pot smoking Republicans".
and i heard a guy being interviewed on our local pbs radio station who has a best selling book called "the end of faith" or something. he was very interesting and i could identify with his perspective on religion "big time" to quote a famous guy who hopefully will get cuffed this week. the interview was done by alan chartock who is a professor at albany u i think and a quality radio show host for pbs. must get the book.
evening jen and everyone.
holy shit i hit 666 again and it was my post about that anti religion book!!! and it was completely by accident...i just know the exorcist will be coming o'er the hill now!
geez, gregg, you know how to write buddy. makes me wish i was there.
i thought of you gregg, when i read this Book review
Psssst, Gregg!! You know what my "real" first name is? It's "Rosemary." You know, like in "Rosemary's Baby!"
Be afraid! 666 means something!
{{{Marsh}}}
i love it gregg!. oh that nasty beast, you got his number! you know he lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
jen, that was a sweet book review. i haven't had a dog in 20 years and though she is making me crazy i love having her to....well...be friends with.
rose...i heard about those two little nubbins above your eyebrow line....
good to see all tom's ranting and raving and that of his lawyer about how evil earl is didn't get him out of getting booked! reminds me of hawaii five-o, book em dano, shithead one.
brooks is known as bobo i believe and his stuff is so nerdy--its like "hey kids come on the jocks and stoners can all get together and make the best prom ever!" it makes me want to puke. last week he listed a bunch of really stupid things harriet had written totally cutting her up and then ended saying she was a great lady...what a putz...sure lets read it.
i read that she was making you crazy gregg, but i'm so glad you love having her. that review brought tears to my eyes. i'm such a sap. they say labs that are adolescents, about 9 mos-ish are truly hell to raise, and that is when many throw in the towel. i know you are in it for the long haul and you will be rewarded for your endurance. She's going to be a truly great dog one day, after being a truly great though labor intensive pup.
Joan Rivers Gets Into Shouting Match Over Race
A discussion over race on a live London radio show Wednesday devolved into a shouting match of personal insults, with comedian Joan Rivers angrily cursing at a fellow guest she thought had called her a racist.
As Howe talked about the pervasiveness of race in personal relationships, Rivers interrupted to say: "I'm so bored with race."
Howe responded: "You're entitled to be bored by it. I am not."
Rivers went on to say she thought race should be irrelevant, and intermarriage should be common.
"Race doesn't mean a damn thing — it's about people," she said.
After host Libby Purves remarked that Rivers was espousing "an American approach," Howe condemned the U.S. as "the most savagely racial places in the world."
After a back-and-forth over the nature of hatred, and a discussion of the film about Howe, the discussion turned angry when Howe tweaked Rivers, referring to "Caribbean children, since black offends Joan."
Rivers exploded.
"How dare you say that! You know nothing about me," Rivers said.
Howe revised his comment to say, "the use of the term black offends you."
"Where the hell are you coming from? You have got such a chip on your shoulder," Rivers said. "Don't you dare call me a racist! I want an apology from you."
As Purves tried to mollify Rivers, saying she didn't think Howe was making a personal comment about the comedian, Rivers became increasingly angry.
"This is a problem in your stupid head," Rivers told Howe, and then accused him of abandoning his responsibilities as a father. "Where were you when he was growing up?"
LA TIMES
definetly jen. in for the long haul. and we have this vestibule or is it an air lock or is it a small porch that is really her room. and in there she doesn't chew stuff up and she sleeps from like 11pm to 7am so its fine. just yesterday i was at agway fingering cow noses and pig ears and such trying to find the perfect anatomical chew for the beast.
i can't stand brooks, gregg, but i guess we can read him and then make fun of him. ygm, btw
brooks b.s.
Good Night Guys...I have to go to bed...morning comes too early.
Peace!
night lizzy, i should head there too pretty soon. sweet dreams nightbird
I'm out too. Got some reading to do, write a nasty LTE, and answer an email.
G'night!!
sounds like a great setup gregg. she'll be happy as a pig in, no... lol
she'll be fine as frog's hair, as Will says. well, i guess i'll call it a night. love y'all.
jen, ygm. rose good nite. lizzy can we actually make a meeting of some sort happen?
i am done for the day. i have been more active in the morning but the night crowd is a good one so i need to get back here more. domingo as always its been my pleasure. will be in in the morning.
I really had to laugh last month when David Brooks said on Meet the Press that "sometimes he thinks Bush is 'The Manchurian Candidate' designed to discredit all the ideas he believes in." No, it's just that that Right Wing crap just doesn't work.
Because we're at a moment in this country where we had a debate for 20 years about: What's the cause of poverty? Is it joblessness, which the liberals were saying? Is it family breakdown, which is what a lot of conservatives were saying? Now, we're at a point where the experts really are seeing the interplay between these two forces. And I saw a hint of it with Bush when he talked in New Orleans the other week. And he understands it, too, and really wants to do something pro-active. And as I say that, you always got to go back to competence. And sometimes in my dark moments, I think he's "The Manchurian Candidate" designed to discredit all the ideas I believe in. And so he has to follow through on that. That's the crucial thing for the next two years for him.
NSNBC
Street Conversations With the Broken-Down Brigade
He's in a wheelchair, ducking behind a trash can. I step forward to see if he's OK and inadvertently scare him.
"I wet myself," the bearded man tells me. There's a puddle under him on the pavement.
Wheelchairs are everywhere on skid row streets. Shiny and new or old and battered. Motorized or manual. Sometimes, when darkness falls and downtown empties out, wheelchairs own the road.
What kind of country treats its disabled and mentally ill this way?
How can we look the other way when the sick and the lame, the disabled vets and mangled castoffs are sleeping in wheelchairs on trashed and stinking skid row streets?
A couple of years ago, when I noticed the legions for the first time, I was at 6th and Towne. A priest was about to hand out blessings and dollar bills to a flock of hundreds. It looked as though a hospital had shut down and dumped its patients on skid row. Wheelchairs, crutches, walkers.
"God's been good to me," a man named Felix Jones said as he got his money from the priest. Jones had lost two legs to gangrene and was going blind on skid row.
Why the high spirits? I asked.
"I feel good in my heart," he said.
Monday night, I decided to go find 10 people in wheelchairs, one after another, to see how they ended up here. The broken-down brigade.
more at...LA Times
I personally believe that the message needs to be to take the government back for the people. We need to stand up to make sure that the middle class is not sold down the river for the rich or the corporations. TAX LAW, STOP THE OUT-SOURCING, sensible energy stategies to reduce oil dependence,INTEGRITY in government. Stay on these issues and don't let the R's move to the fringe issues they use to scare people. The issue is the economic well-beaing of America, meaning the middle class. The poor will be brought along with this but concentrate on the middle class.
I just read "The Agenda" on this site. No wonder we keep getting our butts kicked. It's nothing more than US TOO. We can never out us too them.
We need a solid message of how we are going to improve the lot of the middle class. The rest is fluff. THere is a large majority ou there that is hurting. They see the rivch getting richer and their life gets harder every year. Now most of them can't even get the benefit of bankruptcy. We need to show them how we are going to make it better for them. A new populism if you will.Then we need top keep asking them if they or the country is better off now than they were six years ago.
And guns did kill Gore and Kerry in WV.
Posted by Frostie94 on October 19, 2005 at 11:34 PM
I thought people killed, not guns?
(smart ass this morning, aren't I?)
Now the humorless posters will try to explain to me how I've taken words out of context.
And did you hear that the congressional Repugs nominated Darth Cheney for a medal of freedom yesterday? Are they clueless or just shameless? Incredible.
One for Cyn...and gg, Terry, Nightbird....
Not Tom Delay....
Delay may prevent public's input on voting machines
"We are just worried that if we bring out information on a system that's not certified it's just going to confuse the public," Jones said on Monday.
Jones added she and her colleague were instructed by New York State legal counsel not to participate in any hearings before the machines are certified.
"There is nothing certified. There is nothing to have hearings on at this point," Jones said.
Some OH counties have selected vendors that aren't certified either.
Speaking of voting, has everyone researched their local candidates and prepared to go to the polls Nov. 8th?
Is anybody besides Cyn NY & Letshelpdean going to be pollworkers? Has anybody seen C@L Bob? Bet he's swamped with absentees.
I'd love to read about other states pollworker training. I have classes set up for Oct 25th & 27th with a make up date of Nov. 2nd.
trouble in pittsburgh bluejay and i am back to bed.from the onion:
Study Reveals Pittsburgh Unprepared For Full-Scale Zombie Attack
October 19, 2005 | Issue 41•42
PITTSBURGH—A zombie-preparedness study, commissioned by Pittsburgh Mayor Tom Murphy and released Monday, indicates that the city could easily succumb to a devastating zombie attack. Insufficient emergency-management-personnel training and poorly conceived undead-defense measures have left the city at great risk for all-out destruction at the hands of the living dead, according to the Zombie Preparedness Institute.
Jacque, I don't remember where the call for money for Hacket came from. Does it make a difference? Does he only get a portion from the PACs? I will make sure I use his own site from now on.
Posted by PamB on October 19, 2005 at 09:10 PM
I just don't trust the middle man. Personally, I'd rather give directly to the campaign. Other PACs don't need to use my money for interest then pass it on.
gg,
Reads like it's time to pick up my SK novel ~ Wolves of Calla. They go todash & see dead people.
As soon as the natives started arising here, I was planning on reading the rest of my morning. Looks like they have. I'm out.
Enjoy the long thread!
As early as this morning, the right wing republican leadership in congress may push for a vote to cut $50 billion in essential services for the poor, such as basic health care, nutrition or education. The same proposal includes $70 billion in new tax cuts for the wealthy.
In Iraq, Saddam Hussein stole money from the poor so he could build palaces. In America, the wealthy steal money from the poor to build palaces. No difference.
THE REPUBLICAN ROBIN HOOD IN REVERSE AGENDA
Mornin' Early Risers,
Jacque, R & I went to a Dem town hall meeting night before last. The Chairman of the BoE spoke that night. Guilford Co is getting bleeding-edge DRE's again. Apparently, we're a guineapig county and have been for years.
There were many calls for optical scan. Did I remember right that you feel that those are the most accurate? Our chair made it pretty obvious he's in Diebold's sway.
As for me, I'm in absolute agreement with Schube. It's not so much the software we distrust as the platform the DRE's are based on. I work with Mobile Computing devices all day every day and it's pretty obvious that the platform itself is not ready for business applications.
That may change with DotNet 2005, but that hasn't yet been released (November 7th target). Even if that platform is business-ready and reliable, it would be at least another year of R&D before any software running on it would be reliable enough for business/mission critical applications.
I'll bbiab when I get to work.
{{Y'all}}
Good Morning Peeps
Posted by fade2bluz on October 19, 2005 at 09:39 PM
Love Jefferson!
will we see an auto-thread today?
{{{ABR}}}
Yep, optical scan. Ballot on demand is on my wish list.
I had hoped for a DRE with a receipt that would have to be torn off by the voter and sealed in a secrecy envelope much like punch cards are, but the machines I've seen are all internal. I don't like it. My bi-partisan board went with Diebold DRE. sigh....I don't have a vote, but have to learn to program & train by next May.
Next years elections are going to be a farce! Oh well! What's a few lawsuits to be involved in? haha
Paul H., Let's just hope some freedom lovin' president doesn't come along and try to save us from this country's dictator. I happen to love my small town living.
I've yet to hear whether the special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has interviewed former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz (now chief of the World Bank).
It was widely talked about that he and Vice president Dick Cheney were the principle proponents and architects of the Iraq War (Bob Woodward, "Plan of Attack"; Richard Clarke, "Against All Enemies"). He and Cheney were constantly in the president's ear about it.
As Clarke wrote, Wolfowitz was constantly pressing the theory by Laurie Mylroie, which she wrote in a book that the first world trade center attacks in the early 1990's and 9/11 were connected and Saddam Hussein was the one responsible ("The War Against America -- Saddam Hussein and the World Trade Center Attacks: A Study of Revenge; and another book co-written with Judith Miller "Saddam Hussein and the Crisis in the Gulf).
As Clarke writes, the theory has been "largely discredited," yet Wolfowitz and Cheney were doing everything they could to find a connection -- anything -- that would help them justify an Iraq invasion. Cheney was salivating at the idea so much that he made regular frequent visits to the CIA, constantly hounding analysts to find phantom connections between Iraq, 9/11, and Weapons of Mass Destruction.
I wonder if Richard Clarke and Paul Wolfowitz have been interviewed by the special prosecutor. It may be enlightening testimony.
44 states have presidents approval rating under 50%, 24 states have approval rating under 40%.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20051018-0759-china-wolfowitz.html
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051020/NEWS06/510200452/1012
http://www.japantoday.com/e/content=news&cat=7&id=352669
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1229210
Of course, Wolfowitz is at his old tricks, but only on a larger scale now. He's got his old boss Donald Rumsfeld working with him now in a tag-team effort against China.
-----------------------
See more about Wolfowitz's ideas by reading:
"Asian Democracy and American Interests" by Paul Wolfowitz (Sept. 2000, The Heritage Foundation)
"Wolfowitz on Point" by Lee Crane (2003)
And the upcoming (in early 2007) "The Brain: Paul Wolfowitz and the Making of the Bush Doctrine" by Stephen F Hayes.
Going to be out ofthe office all day -- I know, sniffle sniffle
with that said
CB
Thanks for not engaging in the mudslinging and listening to my thoughts instead of making absurd attacks. I know you may disagree with some of them but at least you are courteous enough to engage in thoughtful discussion instead of personal attacks. If you are ever in WV (or Winchester VA) let me know and I will buy you a drink or two, or three...
Marsh
I am not the one who first raised the gun issue last night. I simply responded like everybody else did.
Fade
No problem, I hate the abortion issue and prefer not to discuss it. It is one of those positions where there is no wiggle room on either side of the debate.
To Jen, Dom, and letshelpdean,
I hope my absense doesn't ruin your day. And Jen, the only reason I have ever flashed my dem credential card is because people like you have accused me of being a troll. If you want to know what I care about or what my position is on any issue, ask me instead of relying on taken out of context posts.
Dom, I am a conservative dem when it comes to guns, the military, and a wide variety of social and economic issues. Just because I think that flag burning is ok, or have no problem with gay marriage doesn't mean that I am not a conservative dem.
LHD, I hope you have a nice day.
Frostie
Vice-President Dick Cheney and a handful of others had hijacked the government's foreign policy apparatus, deciding in secret to carry out policies that had left the US weaker and more isolated in the world, the top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell claimed on Wednesday.
In a scathing attack on the record of President George W. Bush, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff to Mr Powell until last January, said: “What I saw was a cabal between the vice-president of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made.
Fly by, good morning Dems. A Frostie free day is a good start. Dentist chair awaits...Voter machine training this afternoon. Poll work the 1st of Nov. election. Later
I wonder if there is some mechanism to request that Fitgerald produce a report on his investigation? The narrative would surely rival anything that tricky dicks admin had done.
DeLay ordered to Texas for booking
DeLay could be fingerprinted and photographed, although his lawyers had hoped to avoid this step. Fort Bend County Chief Deputy Craig Brady said arrangements were being made to bring DeLay to the sheriff's office sometime Thursday for booking and fingerprinting.
hmmmm, so much for honor among thieves:
Rove Told Jury Libby May Have Been His Source In Leak Case
Top Aides Talked Before Plame's Name Was Public
By Jim VandeHei and Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 20, 2005; Page A01
White House adviser Karl Rove told the grand jury in the CIA leak case that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, may have told him that CIA operative Valerie Plame worked for the intelligence agency before her identity was revealed, a source familiar with Rove's account said yesterday.
In a talk that took place in the days before Plame's CIA employment was revealed in 2003, Rove and Libby discussed conversations they had had with reporters in which Plame and her marriage to Iraq war critic Joseph C. Wilson IV were raised, the source said. Rove told the grand jury the talk was confined to information the two men heard from reporters, the source said.
pie face points a trembling finger
Here we go AGAIN!!! While the world is focused on indictments and scandals, a senate subcommittee is going to work on denying more gay rights (I'm sure this will get no play just the way they want it):
The Senate Sub Committee on the Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution will hold hearings today in a new push to amend the Constitution to bar same-sex marriage.
***
"This amendment represents, I think, the democratic process or the democratic response to recent and widespread efforts by activist courts to change this age-old definition of marriage," said Sen. Wayne Allard (R-Colo) when he introduced the proposed amendment.
The sub committee will hear from a number of witnesses today, speaking in favor and against the measure.
Among those speaking in opposition to the amendment will be Christopher Harris, M.D., assistant professor of Pediatrics at the Monroe Carell Jr. Children's Hospital at Vanderbilt University in Nashville.
http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/ ...005fedAmend.htm
God bless Dr. Harris and thank God I work at Vanderbilt! It's one of the few decent places in this red state.
And BTFW, since when is the limitation of other people's rights democracy at its finest?
From Mary Lyn Jones, http://www.alternet.org/story/27026/
The problem for Democrats is that they haven't learned two lessons that put Newt Gingrich and Republicans into power in 1995. First, don't help the folks in charge. Second, offer a distinct alternative, and positive, vision for where to take the country. Without that, there's no reason for voters to end the majority's reign. The party has had almost five years since Al Gore's loss in 2000 to develop a coherent message, and voters are still waiting.
I'm not around much so maybe a link to harriet miers blog has already been posted. If not, Enjoy!
from Washington Post above: Gregg @ 8:30
Has chickenshit Novak been singing like a neutered canary?
One of the longest-running mysteries of the case is the identity of Novak's second source. Rove has testified that he discussed Plame in passing with Novak, but it is not clear who else did. Novak has provided scant information about the person's identity. It is unknown whether Novak has cooperated with Fitzgerald, but many familiar with the case believe he has because he did not face the same contempt of court charges levied against Miller and Cooper.
A member of the staff of James Hamilton, Novak's lawyer, said he had no comment.
i'll tell one thing if those folks at raw story turn out to be correct about the cheney staff flippin and pointing fingers they'll get a contribution from me--big time.
flagjohn---what exactly was the positive message of gingrich? shut down the government, do away with the department of education or dump your wife for the hottie running the copy machine?
on the other hand i agree the dems message is garbled if it exists at all but i don't think newt has much to offer in the way of a model. i think fdr is someone we might study...
bb, good point. has novak been on the scene at all since his blow up at the ragin cajun a month or two ago. i figure he is finally getting fitted for a new set of choppers cause those ones he bought from rin-tin-tin's estate just weren't cutting it so to speak. and good morning to ya young fella.
I wouldn't be surprised if more than one person was providing the investigation with the true facts. The Bushies have made quite a few enemys in Washington so theres strong motive for payback. Conspiracy charges sounds so much better than perjury.
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