Establishing a new "blog" section on the DNC website dedicated solely to LGBT outreach and current issues, highlighting the work of LGBT activists and organizations.

I sure hope Underbear sees this.

Thanks for posting this section! May everyone know that the DNC has made tremendous progress in expanding and improving outreach to our friends and family in the LGBT community.

And if you cannot find the section that they are talking about just go to the top and place your cursor over the word PEOPLE and you will see a drop down menu...the LBBT Community is listed there.

I would wager you won't be finding that anywhere on a republican website, although I really wouldn't know...my computer is not allowed to go to those sites...it has a serious allergy to them, including the operator of the computer.

Peace to ALL!

Two weeks after the first news story breaks online ,you make a blog thread addressing this, who the hell did you hire Cheney's press secretary, or Michael Brown?
The American Majority community (previously known as the GLBT community)has already formed it's conclusions.
The theme I see developing is the Democrats are Lucy in the Peanuts cartoon holding the football.
Just as Charlie Brown (American Majority community)goes to kick the ball she snatches it away, and he NEVER LEARNS.
'Cept this ain't a cartoon, and in reality we get pissed off, and find someone more trustworthy to hold the ball, (see that's a subtle difference from taking the ball and going home), hope you realize you ain't the only players, and you ain't the only team.We'll form a team of our own, we have before, when you wouldn't give us the time of day.

PeppermintLizzy, I'm beginning to get the feeling that it doesn't matter what the DNC or Chairman Dean does to support the LGBT community. Either he's never going to be happy or he's just here to sow dissent in an attempt to keep us off our message of providing a brighter future for all Americans. Either way, I propose that we just ignore him. We're working for the LGBT community and for equal rights for all. I have no doubt the vast majority of LGBT voters realizes that.

If Dean thinks he can get a few milk-toast docile queers to make statements covering his ass, (which is what the RNC does when they get those fake Black, fake feminist organizations with more people listed on the letterhead than members.)
IT FOOLS NO ONE, and the deception only makes us ANGRIER!
see ya got GLBT advise and it didn't cost you a dime, didn't take a think tank, or a poll.

JSCram

"I propose that we just ignore him"
ignore them, and they go AWAY!

Let me mark it on my calendar, when exactly would you folks need some seed money for candidates, some fundraisers held by A-queens in their homes, some volunteers to take materials out into MY COMMUNITY, some good word of mouth about YOUR CANDIDATES, some poll workers?

Let's do lunch and talk about it.

If Dean had dealt with MY community with honest reasons he felt this outreach office should be closed, held town meetings with OUR leaders before he made the decision, (btw. you folks don't tell us who our leaders are, we tell you), he could have shown us the respect we deserve and settled the matter with friendships intact. That's the exact opposite of how he handled it, and the friendships broken, won't mend easily.

FYI: Yesterday, four senior citizens left our gathering early. They left to join other local Democrats to discuss, not only the administrations policies -- but Congressional Democrat's failings as well -- and what they could do about them.

Why? To paraphrase one senior citizens words -- "I don't know what is happening to this country, I don't recognize it anymore." He mentioned H. Clinton as being SO moderate -- that she plays softball with the truth -- and that many Dems do the same.

I checked this site to see if any meetings were scheduled for my area, but found none. So, the meeting yesterday was truly a grassroots gathering.

Pretty much, everyone I know thinks this way.

To save your party money in the next two campaigns, don't print those triangle, and rainbow versions of candidates bumperstickers, t-shirts,key chains, etc.......no one will be buying.
I look at my DNC bumpersticker which says, " what a difference 10% can make", and I say "you're G*D DAMN RIGHT!"

Thanks for putting this up on the front page!

Having been away for a few days, I'm trying to look at this from a different perspective now.

First of all, it sounds like a lot more of a focus on local organizing and that's good. We're not going to change this country overnight. It's going to take a long-term, ground effort with local organizing and infrastructure.

I don't know about everyone else's towns and cities, but we have a half dozen or so GLBT groups doing different things and if we are supposed to have a local Dem desk to go to about gay and lesbian issues then somehow all of these groups need to work together to be effective.

My question is, how are we going to get all of the local and state GLBT groups coordinating with the local Dem GLBT groups so real progress can be made?

How will we know who these people are and where they are at? How can we get involved and provide input and an infrastructure to keep it strong? Can we have some input on leadership? Many of us are willing and ready to move on this so what can we do to help.

Exile:

You pose some good questions. Thanks for keeping a clear, Postive, forward moving attitude about all of this. It is the only way progress will be made. Empty threats do nothing for the cause.

You have many here on the blog, ready to pick up this cause with you. Know that!

The real threat to the DNC is queers becoming delegates like NEVER BEFORE, in precinct after precinct,(and they know we can, and will.)
Then don't endorse until they beg for our help.
Humility will teach much faster than hostility.

Posted by underbear1 on February 19, 2006 at 02:03 PM

Just so you know, undearbear, YOU are not the only member of the GLBT community on this blog, and to be perfectly honest, you don't represent this queer or his ideas. I see you post a lot here, bitching and moaning, wanting some sort of rewcognition for the Gay Community, well you got a front page post, better late than never. I personaly am sick and tired of hearin or reading you bitch and moan. You wanted some recognition for the community and now it's out there for all to see. I prefer that when called on the carpet that the party responds, and in this case they did. Maybe the dismantling of the original "desk" was a stupid move, but they have heard the cry of outrage and are attempting to do something about it.

What are YOU doing to further the cause of the GLBT voice, other than your bitching? Why don't you join the Stonewall Dems, or some other organization that represents the community as a whole rather than just sit here whinning? I am sick and tired of hearing you bitch, could you tell me, WHAT EXACTLY WILL IT TAKE FOR YOU TO BE HAPPY?

Answer the question.

Bitching ad naueseum without putting forth ideas makes you simply a troll.

I said it, I meant it.

I'll take a Party that sees the error of their ways, albeit a little tardy, than a person who puts forth no ides what-so-ever. It's time for you to put up or shut up. This is one queer that's sick of your incessant moaning and pissing!

So answer the call, put forward some ideas, or go away.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/02/a_year_of_progr.php#

>>>>
If Dean thinks he can get a few milk-toast docile queers to make statements covering his ass, (which is what the RNC does when they get those fake Black, fake feminist organizations with more people listed on the letterhead than members.)
IT FOOLS NO ONE, and the deception only makes us ANGRIER!
see ya got GLBT advise and it didn't cost you a dime, didn't take a think tank, or a poll.
>>>>>>>>>>

I'm with you, underbear1....I wasn't sure whether to laugh or to be pissed off when I read this gem. I've decided to be pissed off, because I don't think Dr. Dean and his staff have a sense of humor. They are obviously running scared as they watch their "cash cow" about to jump the fence.

I would suggest that the DNC "braintrust" compare notes with the Ford Motor Co. "braintrust"; but they should be warned: Judging from what I'm seeing on this DNC blog, the LGBTQ Community ain't gonna settle for some half-assed apology or a promise of some future strokes...a lot of angry Queers are going to DEMAND a change of attitude AND some concrete action or they're gonna walk.

Of course, I can't threaten to "walk", because I already have walked. I have no faith in the newly constituted "Democratic" Party to stand up for progressive policies or to make anything more than cosmetic changes in its image. For 25 years, the DNC has been concerned only with Form...at the expense of Substance.

In spite of serious reservations, I had harbored a slim hope that Howard Dean might turn things around; but he has obviously been bitten by whatever bug infests the inner recesses of Democratic Party Headquarters. Frankly, the job would have proved too much for ANY would-be reformer.

The Republican Party (Let's give the Devil his due!) managed to pull itself back from irrelevance back in the early '60s; but only through a tough re-appraisal of its core principles which had lapsed into a tepid "me too-ism". Its candidate lost in '64; but the party faithful had already laid the groundwork for a resurgence. They only came into full flower with the Reagan victory.

The DNC don't have that kind of patience, let alone that kind of passion, among the leadership; and they are gradually alienating grassroots progressives. Apparently, they think they can get by without their traditional constituencies, by hiring just the right technocrats, triangulating just the right marketing strategy, and fine-tuning a message that will prove to voters that they aren't REALLY "liberal" anymore....that they are JUST as militaristic, JUST as corporate-friendly, JUST as God-fearing...and ALMOST as culturally conservative as the Republicans (except, of course, for their stand on Abortion--a stand that they see as a "winner").

Clinton pulled it off, with a combination of charm and bullshit; but his "success" put the nail in the coffin of the traditional Democratic Party power base. He strung along the Queer community (with invitations to the White House and lip service to "inclusiveness"), while he gave us DADT, DOMA and a ton of excuses. To give him his due, he did mount a serious--and largely successful--campaign against AIDS; and he does deserve considerable credit for that. By the time he entered office, of course, AIDS had become recognized as more than a "gay disease", and championing the cause of AIDS patients could be viewed as more than simply kow-towing to one marginalized interest group.

In sum, yes we all know that the Republican Party couldn't care less about the gay community, except insofar as we offer them a convenient target for right-wing fear and anger; but we should not be hitching our entire fortunes to a party that shows it's willing to distance itself from our issues and drop us like so many hot potatoes if/when push comes to shove. We have to show Democrats that we DO have an option, AND that we are willing to exercise that option. We, as a community, are much bigger and stronger than we traditionally have given ourselves credit for; and we are in a position to demand more than lip service and dinner invitations from any party that expects our support.

I don't think today's Democratic Party is up to going to bat for us; and thus far we've only proved to them that we can be had cheap. It's time for us to stop wringing our hands and start proving that we are NOT bluffing when we say, "Treat us with respect....or else!"

Excellent news, y'all...may i join Pam B. in commending you, Callie, for excellent questions and reiterate my commitment the GLBT community. Burnsey, well said.

This is an opportunity for us to brainstorm with the goal of unifying many voices, singing the same songs in different keys. Pretty amazing what will happen, and IT WILL, when we're all overcoming together.

One love.

mama's got a brand new bag,

sally dressin' up in drag

oh, btw...please remember me in your thoughts, as i just paid good money to have my hair done, and came out looking like Lynn Cheney. ; )

>>>>
Empty threats do nothing for the cause.
>>>>

Well, "empty" threats, by their very definition, do nothing for the cause. I don't get the sense that the threats being made on this blog are "empty" at all.

>>>>
...You wanted some recognition for the community and now it's out there for all to see...
>>>>

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I feel compelled to point out that 'recognition' is cheap....particularly when it comes belatedly. Is that all that it takes to win a vote?

Thank you very much, DNC Staff, for posting this thread.

Ten days later and the same troll is bitching about the same things, signing on twice to back himself up. Look, we already know who and what you are, underbear. You're not even a GLBT person. You've been on this blog system under several different names, signing on two or three times under several different names -- always with the same M.O. and always disruptive.

I'm with Burnsey. You don't represent this queer, EITHER with your incessant pissing and moaning. The rest of us GLBT folks have been checking it and talking amongst ourselves.

That's right -- you weren't invited.

I've been in contact with my local Dem Party office... lo, and behold, GLBT folks aren't just solicited for their votes. We're actually participating and have a voice.

And this is a very red state.

So don't try to tell us that the DNC has turned its back on GLBT people because it's simply not so. If you had ONCE checked out any of the links that were provided for you over the last week or so since you've started your harangue, you would have seen what the rest of us do. Namely, SUPPORT here at the local level where politics affect us most directly. I can now walk into my county office and I will be greeted by someone who is first genuinely happy that I'm there and genuinely interested in my interest and participation.

But you didn't bother with any of it. You've disrupted the flow of conversation long enough and have not gotten off your ass once to either corroborate your own BS or to accept refutation.

Here it is: The closing of a single facility that I'll never get to visit doesn't affect me nearly as much as the encouragement the local level parties are getting from national where I can actively participate to engage in active GLBT outreach. Rather than a desk in an office that I'll never get to see, I can take a short drive across town and talk face-to-face with a GLBT person at my local Dem office.

That is a MOST positive development.

With a new blog at the national level, there is little excuse for us NOT to take advantage of a wonderful co-ordination tool. Those who have been whining about the closure of the old (and somewhat inaccessible) system are clearly not interested in participating -- only the whining.

It's okay to bitch and whine every once in a while -- humans need to do that. But not for eight or ten frickin' days. A little blow-off of steam cleanses us of the negativity in order to take action to make things better from the ground up. But it's that second step -- the action -- that will lead to success this November and every November thereafter.

Gaining a few seats in Congress this November is not going to fix the damage that the Republican Culture of Corruption has taken nearly thirty years to build up. We need quality candidates for this November, yes, but we need to replace the weak, pander-to-the-extreme-right Democrats as they become incumbent. The proper way to do that is to select and groom quality candidates at the local level first.

This is a long-term strategy. Nobody has any right to expect immediate results because the problem has been three decades in building. We can, however, expect tangible results much earlier at the local level where politics affects us the most immediately.

So, UB/NQ, put up or shut up.

Yay real LGBT community! Burnsey, Amanda, thank you for signing on and putting underbear in his place. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that just wants to ignore him so we can get back to fighting for equal rights for all Americans, gay, straight, bi, and whatever other combinations I may have forgotten. Thank you all!

Hey Amanda!! High 5 to you, Buddy! LOL, YOU tell it like it is!

This sad example of someone who thinks he speaks for the Gay community, should take his own advice, and BEAT IT! You don't Like the DNC, then f**k off! We don't like you! We have a saying on here, "BE THE CHANGE" !

I say again, nothing but a bunch of empty threats!

A tale told by an Idiot! Full of sound and fury, signifying NOTHING! (Shakespeare)

You are more to be laughed at than anything! You fool no one!

Amanda_B_Reckondwythe

You are a F*CKIN LIAR, I have one account on DNC with this nickname, and no other, which your moderator can back up.
Denying who I am, won't solve your problem with the LGBT community WHICH IS REAL!
Do you also think I'm every voice on a dozen other sites......pathetic liars get found out real quick honey, google underbear1 and you'd find my posts for a couple years. Who the hell would we find googling you?

JSC and Pam,

I'm willing to give anyone the floor. Lord knows we've all gotten highly pissed at some silliness in WDC and had to blog or explode. But I've read the same harangue for over a week and see no amendment of purpose.

On the Open Thread, GLBT folks have some very firm and fast friends who are loyally fighting for and with us for equality. I've seen those friends post over and over, trying to be heard above the racket and trying to reassure the rest of us that the DNC has not turned its back on us.

I went to see for myself. Out here here Red-Land, the proof's in the putting and I put it to the test. I found a welcome and an ear at the local office. Why couldn't our "visitor" have done the same?

Just askin'.

Either you participate to change your lot or you can sit there whining like a toddler needing a change of diaper. Nobody is going to give anybody freedom or equality -- that hasn't happened in the history of humankind. Freedom and equality happened when a group of people took charge of their own destiny and either participated in the system or changed the system.

Sitting and kvetching never got anybody one bit freer. Kvetching usually gets one's arse whipped, literally or figuratively. Either we DO something positive or we don't deserve the representation and rights we say we want.

Amanda,

You haven't had an inkling how I can bitch, so know I kept a copy of your lies about me, and dearie you will be called out in forum after forum.

just googled "Amanda_B_Reckondwythe "
nine entries on one page none earlier than June 2005
googling underbear1 has five pages

I wish the Republicans would take the time to get educated? Then they wouldn't have to use such foul language to express them selves.
Looks like the Republicans ran off at the mouth instead of acknowledging the Democrats have a darn good plan for America. You would think the Republicans could put down their anti-American words and actions to use a few of our wise Democrats plans. The Republicans don't want to do anything for the people only the wealthiest that can scratch their backs!

freeforall

yeah, just Republicans swear when they are angry.
I f you buy that crud, I have a car from the 9th ward you might like to buy.
Denying who I am doesn't fix this.
It's like trying to make a bear rollerskate, he won't do it, and you piss off the bear.

Amanda want to explain the gay-bareback link you have on google, for folks that don't know that's advertising for unsafe sex, no condom
"gay-bareback-party.cruiselock.net.ru - gay bareback partyJust sayin' Posted by Amanda_B_Reckondwythe on August 10, 2005 at 09:29 AM oops, ... That's a good link to bookmark ;-) Posted by Amanda_B_Reckondwythe on ...
gay-bareback-party.cruiselock.net.ru/ - 101k - Feb 17, 2006 - "

As I recall Andrew Sullivan (with AIDS) got busted at the same type of sites.
As someone who is POZ since 1986 survived my lover's death in 1990 and countless friends, I take a dim view of callous selfish asswipes who for their own sexual pleasure risk other people's lives.

You've come on the wrong blog to start judging our friends. Amanda is an honorable and dignified man and after what I've seen of your nasty attitude you have no place to judge anyone. It's time you leave. Perhaps you should set up a blog where only mean and nasty queens with attitude and no solutions can post.

I didn't create the link Amanda has to barebacking, it's on google, the fact I think it's vile is beside the point.He/she can be your friend, it's no friend of mine. I have already left.

Out here here Red-Land, the proof's in the putting and I put it to the test. By - Amanda...

Wow, I always thought it was pudding!

Go get her, Amanda!

underbear, you couldn't carry Amanda's, Callie's or Burnsey's shoes. What does googling have to do with anything that furthers the GLBT cause? Every sector of society has its good and bad actors. If you really are gay, you are one bad actor. You drive people away from your cause rather make them want to help it.

And, with the new internet stalking law, I think that Amanda has a good case against you. You are sick, vile and disgusting. I am reporting you.

Excellent point, Cyn! Differing opinions is no reason to threaten or to slander.

(b) It is unlawful for a person to:

(1) Use in electronic mail or electronic communication any words or language threatening to inflict bodily harm to any person or to that person's child, sibling, spouse, or dependent, or physical injury to the property of any person, or for the purpose of extorting money or other things of value from any person.

(2) Electronically mail or electronically communicate to another repeatedly, whether or not conversation ensues, for the purpose of abusing, annoying, threatening, terrifying, harassing, or embarrassing any person.

(3) Electronically mail or electronically communicate to another and to knowingly make any false statement concerning death, injury, illness, disfigurement, indecent conduct, or criminal conduct of the person electronically mailed or of any member of the person's family or household with the intent to abuse, annoy, threaten, terrify, harass, or embarrass.

(4) Knowingly permit an electronic communication device under the person's control to be used for any purpose prohibited by this section.

(c) Any offense under this section committed by the use of electronic mail or electronic communication may be deemed to have been committed where the electronic mail or electronic communication was originally sent, originally received in this State, or first viewed by any person in this State.

(d) Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

Yo Cyn-TARD
I have never emailed any poster on this site, if you think finding information publicly available on google is stalking, then you are even dumber than I imagine.

Get your kicks bashing some other fag, I'm done with this blog and with this PARTY!

Well, underbear, if you are unable to read or unable to understand what you read, let me make it a little easier for you:

If you electronically communicate to another repeatedly, whether or not conversation ensues, for the purpose of abusing, annoying, threatening, terrifying, harassing, or embarrassing any person.

you have something to worry about.

"Well, underbear, if you are unable to read or unable to understand what you read, let me make it a little easier for you:

If you electronically communicate to another repeatedly, whether or not conversation ensues, for the purpose of abusing, annoying, threatening, terrifying, harassing, or embarrassing any person.

you have something to worry about."

Having been subjected to being lied about, abused, and embarressed by 5 or 6 posters on this site, guess we can pursue this with lawyers if that's the way you want to deal with the matter.

Threatening me with legal action is a threat Cyn.
Publishing lies about me (which are simple to be shown to be lies) is slander.
Anti-gay statements are covered as HATE CRIMES in my state of residency.

So lawyer up, and be sure it's a real tough lawyer, mine will be a lesbian, that would mop the floor with you amateurs.

for somebody who was "gone from this blog and this party", one does not know where to find the door and not let himself get hit in the ass on the way out!

Don't make yourself look any dumber than you have, I beg you.

You are digging your own grave here. The more you post, the more evidence he has.

Perhaps it's time to contact the Mother Ship.

You desperate troll. Do you honestly think that I would be so stupid as to post on a bareback site and post here? I have never posted on any bareback site anywhere at any time. I have no need to. Moreover, my partner of ten years would have something to say about that.

BTW, he's been Poz since 81. So don't try a pity-party with me and do not threaten me. I don't take kindly to theats or attempted character assassinations. The blogroll speaks for itself.

There are exactly two places I use this particular handle and it is an inside joke with those of us who have been on this blog for over two years. They know me and know where I post or link to, because we are in constant contact. Many of them have met me face to face and know exactly who and what I am.

You don't and you've just made a total fool of yourself for trying.

You're so far wrong in front of such a large group of people, the emails have been flying back and forth laughing at your pitiful attempts to discredit me. You've been busted cold in your own machinations.

While you were busy taking up blog space, we were doing some googling (and a whole lot more) of our own all week.

The results have been most interesting and none of it Democratic in the least. Your anti-Democrat agenda are well laid out. So to further your agenda, you come here, command space on the blog and have managed to piss off a good-sized group of people. But we're not pissed with the DNC; it's just you.

If you had complied with the blog rules and blog standards, we might feel differently. But you have disrupted, post-bumped and introduced over a week's worth of bitching to the blogrolls with no sign of getting off your backside to do something constructive.

As for the name-calling and attempts at character assassination, that shows exactly who and what you are. You've been asked repeatedly to tone down your screaming and post-bumping; you have been offered link after link and viewpoint after viewpoint. You have consistently ignored all of it. You've walked away from manners and good taste. Now, you have stepped outside the law.

Don't go away mad. Just go away.

I believe you have said you were leaving at least three of four different times and yet you are still here. Your right, it's as easy as a google search on you to realize that yes you might in fact be gay but what also stands out more clearly is what a complete pain in the ass you are at almost every blog you frequent.

Normally the best way to deal with such a fool is to put them in cyber deep freeze but I think there are few here that believed you were genuine in your comments earlier this week and only now are realizing that your plan was and is to cause conflict where none was needed or warranted.

Hopefully, we can all just put you back in the corner of the blog and forget to read your craziness, and maybe just maybe repair a few of our online friendships that have been damaged by your inflammatory behavior this week.

Posted by underbear1 on February 19, 2006 at 06:57 PM

Go away. Twit.

Kristen - thanks, and you're absolutely correct. I feel totally stupid by trying to befriend this "person" this week. I hate feeling duped. Anyway, these are the last words I will type about the "subject" here.

Harassment: General

Under the United States Code Title 18 Subsection 1514(c)1. Harassment is defined as "a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such a person and serves no legitimate purpose".

You underbear have served no purpose.

I was leaving, and then Cyn decided to publish a legal threat against me, you wouldn't have heard from me again had that not accured, so either shut the hell up about me, or deal with me.
Choice is yours.

Whew. Back on point...

"Establishing AMP outreach to LGBT..."
"Investing in LGBT community..."
"Extensive Consultation with LGBT leaders..."
"Speaking out on issues that matter to LGBT community..."

What's not to like here?

The Gay Community is WAY more than 10% because it includes the friends and families of gays, many of whom are Republicans.
The community is larger and more determined than the far right wing knows.

The most basic FAMILY VALUE is still love.
No real family member would sit still and let civil liberties be denied their kin.

We are family. Let's defend our own.

accured was a typo above, occured

The Gay Community is WAY more than 10% because it includes the friends and families of gays, many of whom are Republicans.
The community is larger and more determined than the far right wing knows.

The most basic FAMILY VALUE is still love.
No real family member would sit still and let civil liberties be denied their kin.

We are family. Let's defend our own.

Posted by MaJoad on February 19, 2006 at 07:16 PM

SO TRUE! Very well said! I've been trying to say that all week but not so articulately. Thanks!

I was leaving, and then Cyn decided to publish a legal threat against me, you wouldn't have heard from me again had that not accured, so either shut the hell up about me, or deal with me. Choice is yours.

Posted by underbear1 on February 19, 2006 at 07:15 PM

Say what?

No Child Left Behind,

Off to dinner, my friends. Keep fighting the good fight.

The first president I remember as a kid? John Fitgerald Kennedy.

Make him proud.

Eat well, my friend, eat well.

Cyn - don't you mean dessert? I think you had a fine dinner of "bear" already! heh heh! Ok, really that was the last time mentioning it!

MaJoad on February 19, 2006 at 07:16 PM

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

Posted by underbear1 on February 19, 2006 at 01:28 PM hope you realize you ain't the only players, and you ain't the only team.We'll form a team of our own, we have before, when you wouldn't give us the time of day.

Carl Rove in drag - too bad we can't get a picture.

you know what Underbear...I am really disappointed.

We advocate for a thread, and this is what you do.

***shaking my fist***

The fact that a whole segment of society (GLBT) is marginalized, made to feel less human than others and denied what so many take for granted is a disgrace. We are sons, daughters, parents, friends and family just as anyone else yet we cannot express our love openly or enjoy the same entitlements as straight couples. We are consistently demonized and made to feel as if we bring cultures down, destroy marriages, engage in criminal sexual activity, disrupt the military and the list goes on and on. Things as simple as holding hands which are not given a second thought by straights can even get us killed in many places. This predujice is hateful at it's core and should not be tolerated by any fairminded person. Progress has been made but not nearly enough. We gay people are not mistakes of nature nor are we going to dissapear as some may wish. We contribute to society in equal measure to others yet we are asaulted, discriminated against and villified because of our sexual orientation. All things being equal, we would likely be considered stellar in the community were we not sleeping with someone of our own sex. This is wrong. Life is way too short to hate in this manner and try to impose self-rightous and self-serving "bans" due to another minority class, (sexual). There really are a lot of gay people out there but just as the rest of us Democrats, we have allowed the conservatives to dictate the rules and take this country in the direction of their choosing. Let's stand for equality because you never know when you may need it for yourself.

I'm ALL for ignoring the droppings on this thread and focus on the REAL topic.

Mainly, I want to see some coordinating between the local GLBT orgs and the local Dem party groups.

I would like to see a concerted effort in collaborating on talking points between these groups in local papers concerning gay rights issues. For instance, here in TN, we have the anti-gay marriage amendment coming up in Nov. All of our papers should be getting articles posted about this from the local orgs and there should be a consistent set of talking points and forums being put out on this topic.

It sounds simple but the groups have to talk to each other to get on the same page first.

MaJoad on February 19, 2006 at 07:16 PM

beautiful!

as brilliant as OUR Amanda is, he's not the first person to come up with the moniker Amanda B Reckondwythe. I recall reading about an Episcopalian priest who used that moniker back when Amanda first started using it. What an idiot if he thinks somebody in Russia is the same one as our Amanda here. that is what ***.ru stands for btw.

how wise would it be for someone to advertise their ass for use 1000's of miles across the ocean?

ok caught up and now will shut up sorry, always late i am

Now that's a great idea, Exile. It's nice to see people on here who use this board for useful purposes, and not to vent.

However, in my neck of the woods, it's pretty much only open-minded democrats that would write anything to the editor. But someone has to refute what the religious right (sic) has to say. They get several letters a week with all the talking points clear as can be. Heck, every small town has an active chapter of anti-choicers.

I think what a group needs to do is get together to take on this whole "gay marriage" thing head on. And use humor and logic to win others over, and not ALIENATE people.

Start with a room of conservative looking room of people.
"We need to protect marriage!"
"Yeah!" (People thinking hard)
"I know. Let's make ADULTERY ILLEAGAL!"
(People look scared)
"No" "Nope." "Never." "That's might infringe on my right to freedom."
(People look confused again)
"I know, let's legislate marriage classes for newlyweds and people wanting divorse."
"No. that's not FAIR to a spouse."
(Room looks confused again.)
"I know, let's change the constitution so that ONLY gay people can't get married."
"Yeah!" "Brilliant!"
"Will that really help protect marriage?"
"No. But it's a great way to pander to heterosexuals, and those with something to hide."

Bold letters:
Only non-democratic, totalitarian countries like Saudi Arabia, and the former Taliban make requirements requirements against gay marriage. IS this what your Congress should be doing? Call your Congressperson and ask them to not adopt taliban marriage policies."

This is probably a nitpicky question, but here it is nonetheless. While I was at Penn State, we always referred to it as the LGBT community. I've seen a lot of people on here referring to it as the GLBT community. Is there one way that is preferred over the other, or are they both acceptable? I'm a big supporter of equal rights for the community and I'd hate to be inadvertently insulting anyone with something like that.

Posted by JSCram on February 19, 2006 at 11:24 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ahhh,the gratitude.LOL

Freedom, it's really late so I'm not entirely sure what to make of that last post. Is that laughter at my incompetence or my rather bizarre attempt at trying to be considerate? Either way, I'm happy to figure you're laughing with me and not at me. You've had some great posts since I've been on here. Please keep them up.

JSCram-
Lambda uses GLBT
I don't know if it matters.
It's a fair question.

>>>>
Ten days later and the same troll is bitching about the same things, signing on twice to back himself up. Look, we already know who and what you are, underbear. You're not even a GLBT person. You've been on this blog system under several different names, signing on two or three times under several different names -- always with the same M.O. and always disruptive.
>>>>

Same old tactics! Anyone who criticises the direction of the Party is demonized, painted as a "troll", and has his/her 'bona fides' questioned. If you are going to slander every critic who comes along, you ought to be able to back up your insinuations with evidence; otherwise, anybody with an ounce of sense can see through the mud you are slinging. You do the Party no favor by resorting to such sleazy (and tired!) tactics. These kinds of hysterical accusations have cost the Democratic Party so much of its grassroots support.

>>>>
You are a F*CKIN LIAR, I have one account on DNC with this nickname, and no other, which your moderator can back up.
Denying who I am, won't solve your problem with the LGBT community WHICH IS REAL!
Do you also think I'm every voice on a dozen other sites......pathetic liars get found out real quick honey, google underbear1 and you'd find my posts for a couple years. Who the hell would we find googling you?

Posted by underbear1
>>>>>

What we are seeing here, Underbear1, is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and it bespeaks a level of panic that does the Party no good. I trust that most people with any kind of political sophistication can see through such transparent "swiftboating". When your argument can't be countered with a reasonable response, they just throw out as many UNPROVABLE accusations as they can think of. It's a VERY sleazy way to "dispute" an adversaries argument; because it doesn't actually dispute an argument at all...it's a craven attack on the character and integrity of an opponent. It's shameful and ultimately self-defeating, no matter how many voices can be coaxed into joining the choir.

>>>>
Sitting and kvetching never got anybody one bit freer. Kvetching usually gets one's arse whipped, literally or figuratively. Either we DO something positive or we don't deserve the representation and rights we say we want.
>>>>

...and THREATS of "arse" whipping accomplish even less. I would suggest, BTW, that we DESERVE the representation and rights we demand by virtue of the fact that we are citizens of a free and (presumably) civilized society.

It's obvious that there is some disagreement over what constitutes doing "something positive" in furthering the representation and rights that we deserve. Clinging to the remnants of a foundering political party MAY NOT be the most positive thing we can do, although I see no one here who has threatened with an "arse" whipping those who choose to pursue that "strategy".

You might want to temper your words with a bit more reason and fewer personal attacks.

Then GLTB it is. Thanks for the info MaJoad. BTW, nice screen name. Can't complain about a screen name that evokes the economic turmoil and hardship that the current administration is putting us in. Pretty good book too. It's a shame that Steinbeck fella couldn't write a few more things. ;-)

You know, I've scrolled through about half of this blog's postings, and I think I've seen enough. If the point of these discussions is to alienate anyone who has issues with--or distrusts--the direction of the Democratic Party, you have succeeded magnificently.

I invite you all to go back and take a look at your postings, and ask yourself if they make you proud. What exactly did you accomplish by ganging up on the one poster who disagreed with you passionately and (I think) conscientiously? If this represents the attitude a "renewed" Democratic Party wants to project to the LGBTQ community, be prepared to see a lot more hemorrhaging in the ranks.

You've given an excellent lesson on how NOT to win over your most serious critics.

Posted by JSCram on February 20, 2006 at 03:34 AM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It was actually, in general.Sort of like saying "to" you."Sheeze,look at all the posts here.Ahhh,The gratitude" Get it? I mean, have you read what some of these are saying? They're all like "Rufff Grrrrrrr Arffff!!!" I mean,they got the whole first page,long ass post, and "Errrf!" I just don't get it.I'd like to see a real long post with nothing but praises to the Black Community for our music, inventions , food , public leaders, sports stars and beauty, but I promise you that will never happen in this life time.America is too much of a racist nation and ....well,some people get so freaked out when they read something "good" about Blacks,it sends them ER.LOL At least,that's how they act.In any event,I would be happy just to get a "What's up" from the Democrats every now and then and here ya'll got an entire "book" almost and the responses were flooded with "Boo's and Blahs" I don't know.Who cares what I think.Really?

Posted by NellieQueen on February 20, 2006 at 02:56 AM When your argument can't be countered with a reasonable response, they just throw out as many UNPROVABLE accusations as they can think of.

He didn't make an argument.

While you're out doing good deeds, Nellie and fighting for truth, justice and the American way

why don't you ask YOUR struggling, corrupt, failed party why it treats gays and lesbians as something less than American

Come back and report and your findings

I find the recently released Democratic Party 2006 Annual Report to the Grassroots to be refreshing in its new appeal to all Americans and not just to specific sub-groups of American voters. This is an excellent start back to recognizing the power of diversity, and the intrinsic worth of all Americans, not just certain special-interest groups.

No one in the Democratic Party has said or even intimated that members of the GLBT community are worth less than anyone else. But they're also not worth MORE than other Americans, and other sub-groups of liberals and progressives.

This lack of being singled out as needing special outreach above all other groups is recognition that the GLBT community has been more successfully integrated into American life than at any other time in history.

Take pride! Progress has been made. Now let's work as a diversified team of equal members to get this corrupt, God-forsaken, homophobic administration out of power!!!

But they're also not worth MORE than other Americans

We never said that we were. I had someone tell me once that I was trying to be "more equal" than him. Equal is SAME AS not MORE THAN. I don't know where folks get the silly notion that acknowledgement is MORE than in any regards.

But I do agree that we move forward locally with power and force to root out homophobia from both the Republican and Democratic ranks. Both sides reek of it and it won't be cleanses top down but from bottom up. I'm looking at a long-term overhaul of this party because what I see at the top is not acceptable.

Callie-the Keeper of The Registry

Hey guys can anyone tell me what all the fuss is about and exactly what is going on? I heard on Sirius OUTQ News (from the Advocate) that something about Howard Dean will no longer use a liason spokesperson from the Gay/Lesbian community? Does anyone specifically know for sure?

I hope I summarize correctly, but basically the GLBT liaison that was in DC has been dismantled. Instead, to tie in with the grassroots strategy of Dean, there will be more local and state liaisons. That is, if it works the way it's supposed to. At first, I was a bit peeved by it, but when you realize that the crap has floated to the top anyway, we don't need an impersonal office in DC but direct contacts on the local and state level. That's the only thing that can and will turn this party around.

Exile,
Can you give us the historical background to this
DC liaison for GLBT and why it was dismantled?
How is it you see this as a positive?
Why were you initially peeved?
How can we help accomplish what you would like to see happen in the party?
Thanks for your help and informative posts.
-ma

I've go a better idea, since I've spent more than enough time at this blog already, you can ask my "struggling, corrupt, FAILED party" yourself--

http://www.gp.org
----------------------------------------------

...and here's just a smidgeon of what MY party has to say about including LGBTQ people AND their issues in party activities:

http://gp.org/press/pr_07_31_02.html -- Press Release on formation of Queer Caucus

"We dare GLBT voters and organizations to compare the Green platform with the Democrats and Republicans," said Greg Gerritt, Green candidate for mayor of Providence, Rhode Island. "Greens say that, just as biological diversity is essential to the health of the planet, acceptance of human diversity is necessary for the social and psychological health of society. Diversity and feminism are key Green values. We demand legalized civil same-sex marriage rights; safe schools and other equal rights and protections for GLBT parents, children, and youth; repeal of restrictive immigration laws based on sexuality and HIV infection; medical marijuana and needle exchange; universal access to AIDS drugs; women's uncompromised right and access to abortion; and national health insurance."
---------------------------------------------

...and, finally, a word from MY party's Queer Caucus website:

http://www.lavendergreens.org/

Rights, Freedom, Equality, Solidarity and Democracy

Welcome to the Lavender Green Caucus of the Green Party of the United States!
We are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex and Queer Greens organized as a Caucus with the purpose of promoting LGBTIQ issues within the Green Party.

The Green Party platform supports:

Same-sex Marriages, Medical Marijuana & Needle Exchange, Low-Cost AIDS Drugs, Equal Rights, Ending anti-gay bias in the Military, Abortion rights, Civil Liberties, Universal Health Care, Election Reform and Instant Runoff Voting, Nonviolent Solutions to Conflict.

IF YOU BELIEVE in full human rights and equality for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, intersex and queer people and the need for a political party that demands social and economic justice, nonviolence, a healthy environment, and expansion of our freedoms and human rights in a democracy....

'REGISTER Green! VOTE Green! JOIN the Lavender Greens!'

To join the Lavender Caucus, please read about our membership

NellieQueen-
That was an informative post.
I think that what we have to do is work to incorporate those Green principles into the Dem party. I think that if we split we lose.
There are many 'moderates' only a step away from belief in full civil liberties for everyone. The times they are a changin'. The people are leading the leaders.
-ma

I do definately agree with the fact that it seems this is bad for the Democratic party, however I can't abandon them. The only alternative is to join a minority party (like the Green Party) and then hurt the Democratic Candidate's chances even more. I think I may call the DNC tomorrow for more information on this.

Ten days later and the same troll is bitching about the same things, signing on twice to back himself up. Look, we already know who and what you are, underbear. You're not even a GLBT person. You've been on this blog system under several different names, signing on two or three times under several different names -- always with the same M.O. and always disruptive.

I'm with Burnsey. You don't represent this queer, EITHER with your incessant pissing and moaning. The rest of us GLBT folks have been checking it and talking amongst ourselves.

That's right -- you weren't invited.
******************************************
I am so with both you and Bursey on this one.

I'm glad that they have posted this thread, and I really do believe that we must, as a community, come together in order to effect change among the elected members of this Party.

And I'll also say, once again, that underbear DOES NOT represent the GLBT community that I am a proud member of.

I know that the GLBT community many times is it's own worst enemy, and it seems that the loud ones like underbear, who do not reperesent but a very miniscule part of the community, are the ones who are noticed, and the ones that cause so much hatred and bigotry towards us.

I will join all those, GLBT and straight, who by working together will begin to change the hearts and minds of those in this Party, and help win the fight for Equal Rights for ALL Americans.

I think together we can join together, and help each other work at the grassroots level to bring about change in Our Party, and Our Country.

exile-

That Registry link you posted above on Feb 20,2006 4:42pm Pacific was excellent.

Yo' Howard Dean

http://politicalswitchboard.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=7940&pid=46397&st=0&#entry46397
and all the "friendly" folks here

Hey all,

Underbear1 is clearly not the only one who feels this way. Check out this op-ed by the Stonewall Democrats:

Stonewall Calls for Appointment of DNC LGBT Political Adviser

National Stonewall Democrats calls upon the Democratic National Committee to immediately appoint a senior LGBT political staff person as part of its American Majority Partnership to implement electoral strategy and advise the Chair of the DNC.

The Democratic Party is positioned to make historical gains in the 2006 midterm elections. Americans are seeking an alternative to the corrupt, manipulative tactics of a Republican machine that produces poor government and divisive public policy. However, electoral success can only be guaranteed if our party implements a political strategy that effectively communicates Democratic values to a majority of voters. The appointment of a senior LGBT political adviser would help to accomplish this goal.

Republicans have already spent millions of dollars placing anti-marriage amendments on statewide ballots this November in an effort to shape a voter turnout they believe will help their candidates on Election Day. Under the leadership of Chairman Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee has increased the staff and support that it provides to anti-gay activists to conduct electoral work. Democrats must offer an equally aggressive response.

We recommend that the singular focus of a political staff member, along with support staff, is needed to build upon the electoral and programmatic success the Democratic National Committee enjoyed among LGBT Americans in the 2004 election cycle under the leadership of Chairman Terry McAuliffe and DNC LGBT Americans Caucus Chair Jeff Soref.

The Democratic National Committee in 2004 operated a highly visible, comprehensive and effective political program that increased the number of LGBT Americans voting for the Democratic ticket by almost 500,000 from the 2000 election cycle. It added more than 200,000 LGBT voters to the DNC voterfile, had tables at more than 80 pride events and at hundreds of community gatherings, organized 21 statewide LGBT steering committees and placed LGBT political staff in nine battleground states.

In Wisconsin, programs coordinated by the DNC LGBT Outreach Program and the National Stonewall Democrats registered, and delivered, a new block of voters that was larger than the victory margin of the Kerry-Edwards ticket in that state. Similarly, in states like Minnesota, crucial swing precincts that were organized by the DNC LGBT Outreach Program and the Stonewall Democrats dramatically increased both voter turnout and Democratic performance at the same time that other targets not organized by these programs trended Republican.

Governor Howard Dean has implemented a new organizing structure for the DNC, and we are confident that his intent is to continue participation by our community. However, the LGBT representation within this new structure needs to be institutionalized and funded. We simply cannot rely on the layers of staff that surround the Chair to have an open ear to our community.

Donald Hitchcock has done a tremendous job of advocating for the full inclusion of the LGBT community in the DNC’s new American Majority Partnership program as Director of the Gay and Lesbian Leadership Council (GLLC). However, the GLLC is structured to primarily fulfill a fundraising capacity. It is unreasonable to assume that Donald, or anyone in this current capacity, will have the time, energy and resources in a critical election cycle to focus on ensuring that the DNC and the state parties fund and hire staff dedicating to turning out the LGBT vote—the second highest performing Democratic community after the African-American community.

The Democratic National Committee should also reaffirm its commitment to the LGBT community by increasing the representation of LGBT Americans in the committee’s membership. The DNC LGBT Americans Caucus represents less than 2% of DNC members. This level is unacceptable. The committee continues to disproportionately rely on our community to fund its activities and organize its efforts. Governor Dean should capitalize on this support by offering a plan to increase the number of openly-LGBT members of the Democratic National Committee.

National Stonewall Democrats needs strong coalition partners to make our work fully effective. Working with the Gay & Lesbian Victory Fund, we have helped elect openly-gay candidates to public office – and we are now working to elect former Stonewall chapter leaders to legislative office in Alabama and Arkansas. Through partnerships with organizations like Equality California and Mass Equality, our members have engineered passage of pro-marriage resolutions from dozens of local Democratic bodies, and have successfully passed pro-marriage planks to the Democratic party platforms of states like California, Colorado, Iowa, Massachusetts, New York and Washington State.

Democrats everywhere will gain by the full enthusiastic participation from our community. That participation can only be based on a full reciprocal relationship, where the Democratic National Committee is committed to operating an effective LGBT political program. In 2004, Stonewall was proud to staff DNC tables at pride events, while our chapter leaders often served as co-chairs of LGBT steering committees for the DNC. This year, we are already opening offices in key states while hiring local activists to organize our electoral programs, and we are ready to use our resources to partner with a Democratic National Committee that is committed to operating an LGBT political program.

The Democratic National Committee has always offered our community a voice. And to be clear, the Republican National Committee continues to reject LGBT Americans by operating well-funded programs that seek to discriminate against our families. Our community is seeking a full partner to direct our resources and time. In order for our party to claim significant victories this election cycle and re-affirm the principles of equality and inclusion articulated in our national party platform, we call upon the Democratic National Committee to name a full-time LGBT political staff person and implement the type of comprehensive electoral program that serves a core constituency and benefits all Democrats.

Eric Stern is Executive Director of the National Stonewall Democrats, the voice for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender Democrats, with more than 90 local chapters across the nation. He previously served as the Director of LGBT Outreach for the Democratic National Committee during the 2004 election cycle. National Stonewall Democrats is committed to working through the Democratic Party to advance the rights of all people regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.

jen,

btw. nearly every sleezy porn site uses an ISP outside the United States, including those whacked bareback hook up sites. They still have United States regional listings, it's just kept outside the control of the USA. Russia is the home to most of the porn sites globally. That's why it's called the worldwide web.

WOW! We're still on this? Okay,well I have a group that needs recognition too.I am a member of the Intellegent Black Women who date White Intellegent Men Commitee (IBW&WIM) and we have done more to keep the MLK Dream alive than anyone else in this nation so,uh,we need to get some praise for that.Thank You.:D LOL Sheeze.

too bad the IBW who date IBW or IWW aren't given the SAME respect they are due at this site.

too bad the IBW who date IBW or IWW aren't given the SAME respect they are due at this site.

Posted by underbear1 on February 21, 2006 at 12:43 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aww hell.Yes they are.They got an entire two days of open front page thread.You have go the the "Blacks Only" section to read about Corretta Scott King so don't even go there with me.I understand your frustration,but please,noone in this country has been more victimized and abused than the Black American Woman.NOONE! For years,they have been demeaning us and giving out false information about us.They call us well-fare mamas to the point that Democrats think addressing the issue of wellfare is a BLACK issue posted on the BLACK section of this site when the TRUE numbers show that the number of out-of wedlock babies and welfare mamas are EQUAL among both black and WHITE women.I get so irritated with these fake, false, pathectic, suck-up patronizing "efforts" that address absolutly NOTHING that's going on in my life what so ever, yet I'm told that the Democrats really care about what effects me as a Black American Woman.Well,I DON'T have aids,I DON'T have Children,I DON'T require "GUBERMENT" assistance, but damn it,I'd like for my friggen vote to be counted,I'd like to see more Black Women in the House and Senate,I'd like very much for America to see real positive Black Leaders that don't look and act like a joke who quote crappy poems.I'd like to get a promotion at my job and not be held back because I'm Black,I'd like to be able to own my own home and not be denied because I'm Black.I'd like to live the same life that other people in this nation live because I DESERVE it.I'd like to live in a community that doesn't allow the Klan and other Crazy White People to run amok doing as they please to cause fear in the Black Community.I'd like to have a City Council that doesn't call radio talk stations and tell the residents that racism is a good thing and that it should continue.I'd like to see the local police treat all their suspects the same and stop beating the shit out of every Black man they stop.I'd like more strickt laws in place for these sick perverts who go around raping people.Id like to see efforts made to lengthen the punishment of those who commit hate crimes.There are A LOT of issues facing me as a Black American Woman, but I promise you this is the very FIRST time that I EVER said anything about it like I have right now.It's only because I'm sick of this competition for "Who's got it worse in America" that all these other groups seem to have put themselves into.Then,get all smart ass with Blacks who have a few complaints of their own.I'm also SICK of being accused of pulling the race card every time I or another victim of racism calls the perp out on their mess.I'm sick of America (Democrats Included) acting like racism is no longer a problem.As if I should be grateful I'm not getting hung on a tree or that now,I can have "certain relations" with a White man that I actually CONSENTED to.I guess,I have it real good because little white ghosts aren't in front of my house burning a cross.No,instead, they spray paint the word NIGGER on my car,they ignore me at the store when I'm trying to ask a question,they call me on the phone after reading my resume and then,get all pissed off because I somehow tricked them with my "white" name and my "impressive" resume into thinking I was lily white like them.You don't know the crap I have to deal with in the least bit.So,fine, be a smart elect if you want to.Snap at the Democrats if you pso desire,but my all means, don't you dare think for a second that just because Blacks aren't throwing little hissy fits, that all must be good because it's not.If there is anything to learn from this it's this:Sometimes, you have to get what you can because maybe,just maybe, that's all these people are even capeable of giving.Perhalps,they don't know what to do or how to do it.SOMETIMES,you have to actually go through Sh** to understand it.So,some advice to you.Save yourself the trouble by not expecting a darn thing.That way, you won't be dissapointed when they don't care to act on your behalf.It's worked for us Blacks for YEARS! LOL :D

You are welcome to bitch about how Black women are treated in America, but you don't have any grievance a Black lesbian hasn't felt, and then some!

btw. Coretta King spoke out for the Equality of gays and lesbians, how she got that homophobe daughter Bernice is a mystery, I think they switched Alan Keyes' daughter Maya with Bernice at the hospital.

AT LEAST THE DEMOCRATS TRIED.

Like I already suggested at the end of my post, save yourself the trouble.They are not going to get what it is you want.They are not CAPEABLE of UNDERSTANDING anything that doesn't pertain to them and their little circle of people.To their credit,however,they TRIED and got spit all up in the face over it by you and others.DO NOT expect them to UNDERSTAND you.Now,that's only if you want to stop being dissapointed.However,if you just want to stay angry and complain about people that will never understand what it is you want and will never make you happy no matter what they do as you and others have made abundantly clear, then sure, go ahead and throw little fits.My only point was,while I have several complaints as I expressed above, I am not so neive enough to think that if I keep bitching about their efforts,that they will finally understand my experiences.My point,underbear,is that while I have these grievances with the Democratic Party,I also understand that they can only act on what they are able to grasp.I'm saving you the trouble.They DON'T GET IT!They try to "help" but they don't GET it!They don't understand why they got the angry reation to that GLBT post that they did becuause they really think they did something good for your "cause" I tried to explain that to you by sharing the way they so-call address Black issues.Bottom line is, while they seriously suck at it (because they don't GET IT!)they are at least putting forth the effort.Just like you cannot ever really make Donald Trump understand why the people in New Orleans couldn't evactuate,you can't make (White America) understand why Blacks continue to have a distrust towards them (Democrat or Retardican)In addition to that, you cannot expect(STRAIT AMERICA) to fully understand that you are to be taken seriously.They tried to on this very site and was visiously attacked.So,do like I do.Don't expect jack from the Democrats and you won't be dissapointed when they don't support you the way you want them to.That's what I do.I don't take it out on the party.I look at the Black Caucus because it's their responsibility to make these White Democrats get a clue as to what issues need to be faced.That's why the Democrats don't know what they are doing with respect to addressing Black Issues.They are clueless and need guidance from the Black Caucus who ain't doing jack.So,talk to the GLBT or LGBT and have them educate the Democtratic Party as opposed to attacking their efforts.Now, do you understand? It wasn't about me bitching so much,it was about the fact that bitching won't help when you're dealing with people who are trying to understand you,but their minds are unable to.Educate a student first before telling them they failed the test.In others words,make them understand you before demanding that they .........see? even I don't know what your requests are. Hell,forget it.Just forget it.

I'm Sorry people, :(

I feel like a fool now after reading all the posts and realizing that all this time I was responding to a troll.My own ignorance of the Gay and Lesbian Community caused me to believe that I was actually communicating with one of ya'll.In any event,I hope,I did not offend anyone.I love everyone and .......God is good?That's all.Peace. :D

Or some people just naturally rebel from what they are told? Or, IT DOES NOT MATTER where or who you come from? Who knows? It's really not that important.

What I've been asking myself is WHY are the loyal Republican anti-choice/anti-gay activists so much more effective and organized than the semi-loyal Democratic pro-choice/equal rights for gays folks?

After considering it for several hours, I think it can be explained by a common principle. The people fighting for a HIGHER CAUSE fight more, and eventually win.

Why did WE we not "win" in Vietnam? Basically, the Vietnamese were fighting to protect their homeland, a higher cause. If people from another country came to take over America, we know that WE would all fight to the end. (I've said for years that I hope we don't underestimate the the resolve of the Iraqis to oppose anything and everything remotely foreign, especially American.)

Having made this opinion of human nature, I think that because the Republican anti-choice people BELIEVE they are fighting for LIFE and GOD, they are more serious than people that are fighting to get married (an institution only supported by 50% of adults).

"Marriage" is really more important as equal rights and benefits. Yes, it's very important. But to "Christian activists" it's a matter of ETERNAL LIFE and GOD. That gives them more energy and fight than those fighting for the institution of marriage and equal rights. Sure, this is over-simplified.

Someone made an interesting point yesterday. They talked about organizing for AIDS. They noted that it is/was a very successful movement. But why just then? As I've attempted to explain, it's because they/we were fighting for LIFE, just like the far-right fights for "life" today. To both, it's a matter of life and death, so it's natural to fight with more intensity. I'm speaking in general terms here.

So why would so many people, gay or straight, not fight to the end for the right to get married? They do. It's just that more fight for things like the war, the death penalty, food, immunization, air and water, and things that ARE a matter of life and death.

What does this mean for grassroots organizing? I'm really not sure. I just think it's important for us to understand that we should NOT be surprised that the "pro-life" groups are fighting for what they believe is a higher cause. Can we doubt that supporters of the "right to life," or the people fighting to stop people from getting blown up in a foreign land, is naturally a higher cause than the fight for marriage rights for gay and transgendered people?

I don't always agree with peoples' reasons. But I hope this helps explain the reality of Americans and organizing.

How can people who are gay, and literally demonized by this group, get more motivated to take them on as anti-Jesus hypocrits they are? I don't know. I do know that I should respect people for where they are socially, and what they are capable of doing. As Michael Stipe sang, "not everybody can carry the weight of the world."

I just wish people would DO SOMETHING locally, and then turn out to vote. I think that this is something that can only be done from the grassroots, not the top down.

And one more thing, one thing for sure, the Republicans know that they win when Democrats and Independents vote third party. That's why they funded Nader (and "flipped" many votes to Independents in Ohio). But if it's a free world, so they say. If they want to vote third party in a two party system, then let them waste their vote. They can pretend we have a "porportional representation" system like Germany all they want. So let's be on the look-out for Republican trolls making the same old excuses here. What they are really afraid of is a UNITED democratic party.

Or some people just naturally rebel from what they are told? Or, it does not matter where or who you come from? Who knows? It's really not that important.

What I've been asking myself is WHY are the loyal Republican anti-choice/anti-gay activists so much more effective and organized than the semi-loyal Democratic pro-choice/equal rights for gays folks?

After considering it for several hours, I think it can be explained by a common principle. The people fighting for a HIGHER CAUSE fight more, and eventually win.

Why did WE we not "win" in Vietnam? Basically, the Vietnamese were fighting to protect their homeland, a higher cause. If people from another country came to take over America, we know that WE would all fight to the end. (I've said for years that I hope we don't underestimate the the resolve of the Iraqis to oppose anything and everything remotely foreign, especially American.)

Having made this opinion of human nature, I think that because the Republican anti-choice people BELIEVE they are fighting for LIFE and GOD, they are more serious than people that are fighting to get married (an institution only supported by 50% of adults).

"Marriage" is really more important as equal rights and benefits. Yes, it's very important. But to "Christian activists" it's a matter of ETERNAL LIFE and GOD. That gives them more energy and fight than those fighting for the institution of marriage and equal rights. Sure, this is over-simplified.

Someone made an interesting point yesterday. They talked about organizing for AIDS. They noted that it is/was a very successful movement. But why just then? As I've attempted to explain, it's because they/we were fighting for LIFE, just like the far-right fights for "life" today. To both, it's a matter of life and death, so it's natural to fight with more intensity. I'm speaking in general terms here.

So why would so many people, gay or straight, not fight to the end for the right to get married? They do. It's just that more fight for things like the war, the death penalty, food, immunization, air and water, and things that ARE a matter of life and death.

What does this mean for grassroots organizing? I'm really not sure. I just think it's important for us to understand that we should NOT be surprised that the "pro-life" groups are fighting for what they believe is a higher cause. Can we doubt that supporters of the "right to life," or the people fighting to stop people from getting blown up in a foreign land, is naturally a higher cause than the fight for marriage rights for gay and transgendered people?

I don't always agree with peoples' reasons. But I hope this helps explain the reality of Americans and organizing.

How can people who are gay, and literally demonized by this group, get more motivated to take them on as anti-Jesus hypocrits they are? I don't know. I do know that I should respect people for where they are socially, and what they are capable of doing. As Michael Stipe sang, "not everybody can carry the weight of the world."

I just wish people would DO SOMETHING locally, and then turn out to vote. I think that this is something that can only be done from the grassroots, not the top down.

And one more thing, one thing for sure, the Republicans know that they win when Democrats and Independents vote third party. That's why they funded Nader (and "flipped" many votes to Independents in Ohio). But if it's a free world, so they say. If they want to vote third party in a two party system, then let them waste their vote. They can pretend we have a "proportional representation" system like Germany all they want. So let's be on the look-out for Republican trolls making the same old excuses here. What they are really afraid of is a UNITED democratic party.

freedomOfSpeech,
It's I who gave you the benefit of the doubt, but in just 4 posts you made it clear you are neither Black, and I suspect you aren't a female either.
So who EXACTLY are the G*D DAMN posers at this Tiajuana Donkey show?
Getting doubted that I am gay, and WAS a Democrat, is pretty silly since I've given where a couple years of my posts can be found. If you think just trollish Republicans swear, here's a parting shot for your
bitter little clique
F*CKING, F*UCK YOU, YA F*CKS!

From USA Today Headline: "Drives to ban gay adoption heat up in 16 states".

Oh, yeah the DNC is in support of GLBT rights. Where are they in fighting this new injustice towards our community?

POE,

I think you make an interesting observation, and you may not be far off the mark.

I've often wondered why in the hell we have so many GLBT orgs, and even hundreds of thousands of GLBT-friendly/supportive orgs, that work in a million different directions and even sometimes against each other, instead of coming together in a common fight. For instance, here in TN, I swear we have a good dozen GLBT orgs but they all do their own thing. Some work with HRC or another national organization, but rarely do they collaborate together for maximum impact, especially when attacked locally. We have one organization Tennessee Equality Project that works on legislative issues like the anti-marriage amendments, but there are other local groups like PFLAG, HRC, ACLU, and Stonewall Dems that have this interest too, yet they don't all work together. TEP is expected to manage all of the policy and legislative issues.

Like you said, I don't think many GLBT people see this (yet) as a life or death issue, like they did with the AIDS crisis. Their friends were dying left and right and at any moment it could be them. There are some men who don't have one friend left from that time period so we formed groups like ACT Up that were the GLBT version of the Black Panthers: angry, loud, and refusing to shut up until change had come. It was life or death.

With marriage, there are a few of us who see it as life or death and those are the ones who are willing to take our fights into the courts, who are willing to stage protests, who are never shutting up about the inequity of the system. Some in the GLBT communit don't see it as a life and death issue because maybe they aren't in a situation with family where they will be forced into court, kicked out of the hospital, denied rights, etc. Some are rich enough to afford the thousands of dollars in paperwork to give them a little bit of peace and a lawyer that can fight for them in court if needed. Some don't have relationships right now that are that serious or assume they won't have one that serious so why fight for what they won't need. I know GLBT people in all of those situations.

But I also know some with kids, some with terminally ill partners, some with hostile family members, and some that can't afford the luxury of moving to MA or the pile of paperwork needed to even halfway protect their relationship. That's the ones that fight. I'm one of those. Getting us all together is the hard part and getting past the divisions in our community is hard too. We have divisions along race and ethnic lines, which is heartbreaking but true. The fight for marriage is seen sometimes as the gay white person's fight.

So, the bottom line is that our own community has a lot to overcome within itself first. We need to get a grip on ourselves locally before we start trying a revolution nationally to take over a system of a**holes that don't even give a damn about us.

If we look at the way the Republicans have taken over, it was slow and methodical, and it started locally. These Pugs that did this may be crazy as loons, but we need to step back and learn some lessons here.

Sorry for the long post but I was trying to cover a lot of ground in one pass.

Callie-The Keeper of The Registry

Oh, yeah the DNC is in support of GLBT rights. Where are they in fighting this new injustice towards our community?

Posted by charri on February 21, 2006 at 09:25 AM

Charri,

I agree! The national DNC isn't going to do anything, and we know that. But I do ask this: where are WE, the GLBT community, in this equation in kicking the proverbial ass of the local and state officials to turn their backs on these discriminatory pieces of legislation?

Read my previous post...We have seriously got to stop dividing our community and get in this game. Nobody is going to stand up for us until we stand up for ourselves. Nobody makes a difference in local politics but local folks.

While you may think I've changed my tune, I stick to my guns that the national DNC ain't worth crap and they ain't getting one red cent from me; however, I know what needs to be done and that is getting some butt kickin' done from the ground up. That way we can bring in good people at the bottom and bring them up along the ranks. When they get to the top, they'll still be our people and be beholden to us.

Callie-The Keeper of The Registry

Exile,
Your post makes AIDS fight seem it's HISTORIC, we aren't dying in droves, but we and our friends are still dying. We are being cut from financial benefits for our meds by States, and forced on that insane maze of Medicare D. Our safety is what is being discussed in America, not the right to marry, hell we lost that fight for 30 years.
But the same foes won't stop at denying us marriage, they'll go for housing and job discrimination, re-enforsing Sodomy laws JUST ON GAYS! Our community better make the difficult choices, which of us will flee as expatriots, and which are going to fight tooth and nail. Some of each would be my hope, the young sucessful queers find somewhere outside America for a decade or more.

My point wasn't that the AIDS fight was over (or Historic) but that we saw it, as Power of Equality was saying, as a life or death fight. Our opponents see fighting us on all counts, whether about marriage, housing, or any issue, as a life or death fight for them. We don't. The X queens and club kids don't see much of the things we fight for day in and day out as a life or death struggle. We're in a million different directions and we haven't pulled our own community together yet. The height of the AIDS crisis was the most coalesced we had been...ever. It's hard to ask others to fight the good fight when we can't even do it ourselves. That was my point.

Lets charge an Advertisment for the people that write negative statements about our wise and loving Democrats? Lets charge the same TV charges to put an advertisment on one of their National Stations. I bet the people would be able to see good things about Democrats. Then
finally the Truth would come out. Let them post on the Republican Blogs. We are too busy thinking of the right things to do for the people? Every time you let them write long speeches on our Blog it keeps our people from thinking of suggestions for the good of our party?

Exile,

You have made THE POINT: we, as a communtiy must first come together, and work TOGETHER, before we can expect to see any support from the DNC, and our "elected Democratic Leaders".

Yeah, I believe that this thread is in response to the negative backlash from the GLBT community, but at least there was some sort of response, so we do know that we can be heard.

So we need a strategy to really get our community together in productive ways, and really begin to effect change in our Party, and within our own Community. As I stated previously, we are our own worst enemies, and we must figure out how to bring everyone together on this.

There is power in numbers, and until we become united, we are just a lot of individual voices, which can be ignored. Just as the "Religious Right" banded together and demanded to be heard, we have to do the same in order to survive.

I have been torn because of the actions of the Democratic Party, not just on GLBT rights, but on the shift to the middle that so many have taken, while blaming us for losing elections. But, I know that we, together, can begin to effect change. It is already happening in other countries, and in a few areas in this country, so we must empower this Party to not shy away and run from our issues.

Does anyone else here think that the people should decide this important moral issue for themselves? Why hide behind the last bastillon of the courts, when even they seem to be turning against you? Are yoy afraid of what the people will think, will demand of this nation? I think it should be decided by the people, once and for all. Vox Publico, Vox Domine.