GOP Country Club Debate
The Republican Candidates are debating tonight at a country club. We'll be watching them and documenting their flip-flops, exaggerations, and pandering in this thread.
Rudy Was Against Education Program He Touts At The Debate Tonight
RHETORIC: Tonight Giuliani Touted Mid-90s Voucher Program Giuliani touted a mid-1990s program for school vouchers, saying the episode was “the thing that made me feel very strongly about choice” in schools.
REALITY: Giuliani Opposed The Program He Now Touts: In May 1995, “Mr. Giuliani also said he opposed the introduction here of school vouchers, a system, backed by many conservatives, that would allow parents to receive public funds to pay tuition to send their children to parochial or private schools. The Mayor said vouchers would bleed the public schools of needed funds. ‘That would be a terrible mistake,’ he said, drawing sustained applause.” [New York Times, 5/7/95]
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Romney Endorsed Bush Care: Health Care For The Guy Who Mishandled Katrina
Tonight: Romney Tonight Distances Himself From Bush ... I don't want to have the guys who did the cleanup in Katrina taking responsibility for health care in it country.
Flashback: But Romney Embraced Bush’s Health Care Plans. In a statement on President Bush’s 2007 State of the Union address, Romney said, “I welcome President Bush's proposed initiatives to make health insurance more available and affordable.”
Fool Me Once.
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Fred's Scary, Bush-Like Social Security Reform
Thompson’s Plan For Social Security Would Results In A Loss of Benefits For Retirees. Thompson’s plan for ‘saving’ Social Security is to replace the current system of indexing to wages “with a system indexed to the growth in inflation, which typically grows at a lower rate than wages,” which would mean that “now-promised benefits could be cut for some workers by 10 percent in the short term and possibly much more in the longer term.” Thompson’s campaign acknowledged this and even provided an example: “a $40,000-per-year worker born in 1975 would receive $1,562 per month under the current system, compared with a $1,424 a month under Thompson’s proposal.” [Boston Globe, 10/15/07]
Thompson’s Benefit Cuts Plan Would Most Adversely Affect Low Income Workers. According to the Congressional Budget Office, if Thompson’s plan were enacted, future retirees “would have benefits 24 percent lower than promised under the current system if the change were implemented next year. Those eligible for benefits in 2050 would receive 40 percent less.” In addition, the change Thompson is proposing “would be hard on lower-income workers, who rely heavily or entirely on Social Security in retirement.” [Washington Post, 10/12/07]
. . .And Cause Poverty Among the Elderly. According to a Congressional Research Service analysis of similar plans, “if we were doing what Thompson wants, there would be 10 million elderly Americans living in poverty today instead of just three million.” [MSNBC, 10/11/07]
Fred’s Unpopular Plan Is Costing Him Valuable Congressional Support. The majority of Fred Thompson’s Congressional endorsers do not support his plan to ‘fix’ Social Security by indexing benefits to inflation instead of wage growth. Thompson supporter Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.), “said he was skeptical about any proposal that could cut benefits by as much as 25 percent.” When asked if he agreed with Thompson’s risky proposal, Rep. John Duncan Jr. (R-Tenn.), another supporter, said “No, I don’t. . . I think there are other things we can do.” And, “Rep. Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.), chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee, is another Thompson supporter who said he would not support restricting projected Social Security benefits to the growth of inflation.” [The Hill, 10/1/07]
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Yikes:He's Got Bush's Experience:
Romney tonight: "The idea that someone wants to be president who's never worked in the private sector is really a big question mark..."
Flashback 2000: Bush: Gore Not Qualified to Be President Because He’s Never Been a CEO. Despite Vice President Gore’s experience in government, George W. Bush claimed his opponent did not possess the necessary experience to be President. “He's never been a CEO,” Bush said of his Democratic rival. “Being in the business world is part of the experience necessary” to become Commander-in-Chief, Bush argued. [Tampa Tribune, 3/13/00]
Would you buy a car from this man?
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Would you buy a used car from Mitt Romney?
Rhethoric: Mitt Says Hes a Businessman: I've spent 25 years in the business world, running a small business that became a large one.
Reality: His Private Equity Partners Say He Was A Salesman: "Mitt ran a private equity firm, not a cement company,’ said Eric A. Kriss, a former Bain Capital partner. ‘He was not a businessman in the sense of running a company,’ Mr. Kriss said, adding, ‘He was a great presenter, a great spokesman and a great salesman.’” [The New York Times, 6/3/2007]
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TONIGHT: Giuliani claimed he took $2.3 billion in deficits and replaced them with surpluses.
Reality NY Times: Giuliani Claim On Reducing Deficit Wrong. Giulianis repeated claim that he turned a $2.3 billion deficit into a multibillion dollar surplus is misleading, independent fiscal monitors said. In fact, Mr. Giuliani left his successor, Michael R. Bloomberg, with a bigger deficit than the one Mr. Giuliani had to deal with when he arrived in 1994. And that deficit would have been large even if the city had not been attacked on Sept. 11, 2001. [New York Times, 8/27/07]
FactCheck.Org Agrees: Deficit Went Up Over 20% Before 9/11. Analyzing Giulianis claim independent group FactCheck.org said its misleading and that Giuliani ignores the fact that he also left a multibillion-dollar deficit for his successor, not including costs associated with 9/11. According to city records, when Giuliani entered office in 1994 he was facing a $2.3 billion deficit, but when he issued his last budget in May of 2001 before 9/11 his own budget projected a deficit of $2.8 billion for his successors first year. Thats a 21.7% increase. The citys Independent Budget Office put the figure at $3.3 billion. Ultimately after 9/11 the figure grew to $5 billion, but a deficit larger then the one he inherited was already on the books well before the terrorist attacks. [FactCheck.org, 7/27/07; Four Year Financial Plan, Executive Budget, Fiscal Year 2002, NYC Office of Management and Budget, p. 6; Analysis of the Mayor's Executive Budget for 2002, NYC Independent Budget Office, p. 4]
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Romney Tonight: I've been in a state that has gay marriage, and I recognize that the consequences of gay marriage fall far beyond just the relationship between a man and a woman. . . . I'm committed to making sure that we reinforce the institution of marriage in this country by insisting that all states have a right to have marriage as defined as between a man and a woman; and we don't have unelected judges, liberals, standing up and saying we're going to impose same-sex marriage where it was clearly not in their state constitution.
Romney Then: Romney Questioned for Not Doing More For the Massachusetts Ballot Initiative to Ban Gay Marriage. Prior to its defeat in the MA legislature, Mitt Romney failed to reach out to legislators in the days before the critical vote on a bill to ban gay marriage in Massachusetts. Romney spokesperson Eric Fehrnstrom confirmed Romney did not make any phone calls; Fehrnstrom added that while the movement behind the bill could have benefitted from such leadership, it is doubtful that it would have helped pass the unpopular ban. [Boston Herald, 6/16/07]
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NOW: I Forgot. Tonight Fred Thompson, challenged about his legal and lobbying work for clients including a pro-choice group said “frankly I’d forgotten about it.”
THIS SUMMER: All of My Clients Deserved Representation. When pressed about his questionable client list as a Washington lobbyist, Thompson replied, “Nobody yet has pointed out any of my clients that didn't deserve representation." [Associated Press, 6/26/07]
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ZERO FOR THREE - RUDY WRONG ON IMMIGRATION TOO
RHETORIC: Tonight Giuliani defended his record by misleadingly claiming that the simple fact is New York City had a policy of allowing people who were illegal immigrants to report crime and put their children in school.
REALITY: Giuliani Said You're Somebody We Want To Protect. If you happen to be in an undocumented status, you're one of the people who we want in this city. You're somebody that we want to protect, and we want you to get out from under what is often a life of being like a fugitive, which is really unfair, Giuliani said. [New York Times, 6/10/94]
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Rudy Giuliani: Rhetoric vs. reality
RHETORIC: Tonight Giuliani tried to defend his conservative credentials on the topic of same-sex marriage saying, “I did 210 weddings when I was mayor of New York City…all men and women.”
REALITY: Giuliani Said He Would Marry Openly Gay Couple He Lived With During His Marital Spat If Gay Marriages Were Legalized. “Howard Koeppel, half of the gay couple that Giuliani lived with during his marital spat, said [Giuliani told] us that if they ever legalized gay marriages, we would be the first one he would do.” [New York Times, 8/04/01]
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RHETORIC: Giuliani Claimed That He Brought Down Crime More Than "Anyone In This Country." Giuliani said, "I brought down crime more than anyone in this country and maybe in the history of this country while I was mayor of New York City." [Fox Debate, 10/21/07]
REALITY: Crime Fell More In San Francisco Than New York. According to a journalistic fact checking website, "New York was no anomaly, but was part of a trend that saw crime fall sharply nationwide in the 1990s, particularly in big cities. The city with the best record for reducing violent crime during this period? San Francisco….many criminologists believe the decline in New York, as in Chicago, San Diego, Miami and elsewhere, was the result of a complex mix of social and demographic changes, including a break in the crack cocaine epidemic, an improving economy, and increased prison terms for proven lawbreakers.” [PolitiFact.com, 9/1/07]
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RHETORIC:Tonight, Giuliani said about taxes I cut them 23 times
REALITY:Tax Cutting Claim A Half-Truth, Multibillion Dollar Bit Of Puffery, Misleading, Not Really True. Journalists and independent analysts have slammed Giulianis claim that he cut taxes 23 times as mayor of New York. Factcheck.org wrote that the mayor takes credit for too many tax cuts and called his claims an overstatement. Their research showed Giuliani cant claim credit for nine of the 23 cuts he cites, because as Politifact.com found they were championed by others or involved state funds. The New York Times called the claim misleading and the New York Daily News, with its own research and independent experts, called it not really true. CNBCs Truth Squad points out that he takes credit for one huge tax cut, the personal income tax surcharge he actively opposed, and the Washington Post awarded Giuliani Three Pinnochios the claim, noting that the citys own Independent Budget Office disagreed. [FactCheck.org, 7/27/07; Politifact.com ; New York Times, 10/12/07; Daily News (NY), 7/29/07;
Squawk Box, CNBC, 10/5/07 ; Fact-Checker, WashingtonPost.com, 10/11/07]
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